BIAB - sparge or no sparge

[ArcLight]

When you BIAB do you mash in the full water volume, then raise the bag out.
Or do you mash in half the water, drain it, and add in the remaining water (liquor), let it sit for 10 minutes, and drain?

I get the impression for BIAB you let the bag sit in the full volume of water. But the instructions for a partial mash kit (which really is a mini-BIAB) suggest using half the water, drain, then add in the other half of the water, at close to 170F for 10 minutes.

I assume that the bag continues to drip for a while, so you can add the dripping to the boil. While you don't wnat to damage your bag, would it be worth while to make some kind of press to squeeze the extra liquid from teh grains? Or will the drippings be good enough?
(No need to work for an extra .001 OG)

 

[stompbox]

When you BIAB do you mash in the full water volume, then raise the bag out.
Or do you mash in half the water, drain it, and add in the remaining water (liquor), let it sit for 10 minutes, and drain?

I get the impression for BIAB you let the bag sit in the full volume of water. But the instructions for a partial mash kit (which really is a mini-BIAB) suggest using half the water, drain, then add in the other half of the water, at close to 170F for 10 minutes.

I assume that the bag continues to drip for a while, so you can add the dripping to the boil. While you don't wnat to damage your bag, would it be worth while to make some kind of press to squeeze the extra liquid from teh grains? Or will the drippings be good enough?
(No need to work for an extra .001 OG)

I have done it three ways:

1. Use full volume up front
2. Rinse with 1 gallon of heated water
3. Soak it in another pot with 2.5 gallons heated water for 10 minutes and then drain

As far as efficiency 3>>>2>1. Meaning option 2 was better than option 1 but option 3 was MUCH better than option 2.

I think I will be doing all BIAB with option 3 going forward.

 

[WildOnions]

I think ideally you wouldn't have to sparge, but some people (myself) don't have the kettle volume to accommodate the entire water volume & grain so they sparge as a means of getting to the volume they need. I want to do 3 gallon batches (3 gallons in bottles, so 3.25-3.5 post boil volume), and I only have a 5 gallon kettle, so I am planning on squeezing the bag for extra volume, then dunk sparging in a separate pot to get up to the 4.25-4.5 pre boil volume I need. Basically a separate pot with about a gallon of water at 170, grain bag will go in, stir it well, let it rest for 10 minutes then add that back into the main kettle. I've just got to find time to do this, that's the hard part

 

[gingerdawg]

I do the mash & sparge thing. The biggest reason is pot size and equipment limitations. My 8.5 gallon pot will fit a fairly thin mash with up to about 15# of grain, but it will not fit full volume pre-boil+grain+grain absorption water.
It does make some good beer!

 

[ArcLight]

I have done it three ways:

1. Use full volume up front
2. Rinse with 1 gallon of heated water
3. Soak it in another pot with 2.5 gallons heated water for 10 minutes and then drain

As far as efficiency 3>>>2>1. Meaning option 2 was better than option 1 but option 3 was MUCH better than option 2.

I think I will be doing all BIAB with option 3 going forward.

For #3 - do you mean that you use half the water to mash, then use the remaining half to sparge? (or full volume - 2.5G, then 2.5G for the sparge)

 

[stompbox]

For #3 - do you mean that you use half the water to mash, then use the remaining half to sparge? (or full volume - 2.5G, then 2.5G for the sparge)

Full Boil Volume - 2.5 Gallons for 10 Gallon Batches
Full Boil Volume - 1.5 Gallons for 5 Gallon Batches

Then you dump all that into the boil kettler so that you have the full boil volume.

 

[MrSpiffy]

I did a sparge on my first BIAB batch, mainly to help my efficiency. I managed to hit around 68% or so. I'm hoping to do my second BIAB batch this weekend to see how it comes out. I plan to use the same dunk-sparging method that I did the first time.

I also squeezed the hell out of the bag and lost very little water. Just use a small pot lid and press the grains to really squish all of the liquid out. It'll likely help efficiency a little bit and use less water.

 

[ArcLight]

>>I also squeezed the hell out of the bag and lost very little water. Just use a small pot lid and press the grains to really squish all of the liquid out. It'll likely help efficiency a little bit and use less water.

1. I assume this is while the grain is still in the bag?
2. Do you put the bag in a collander so the wort can drip out?
Or just leave the bag in the pot (after draining it) and press the bag/grain with a small pot lid?

I can imagine some inventive BIAB DIYer will create a "BIAB" press, to make this easier!

 

[Beer-lord]

I just leave the bag in a collander and collect the drippings and occasionally press down with my lid to extract as much goodness as I can. Sometimes, I just grab some of the wort while and sparge a bit and then continue to press with the lid while my wort gets to boiling. After about 30 minutes, it's completely drained and I've collected some goodness.
I've consistently been in the 78% to 83% range and am very happy with that. My last 3 batches have been excellent, and that's comments from my many beer snob friends.

 

[Voodoo_Child]

I just did my first BIAB yesterday and my process included a dunk sparge.

I mashed in 2 qt/1 lb which came to 6.25 gallons, heated 1.75 gallons to 170 and added that to my cooler that I use for swamp cooling. After the 60 min mash, stirring 30 min in, I added the grain bag (voile curtain not even sewn) to the cooler and mixed. Let that sit for 10 min while boil kettle comes to boil. Raise bag out of cooler, squeeze, then toss the grain in the fabric into a Lowes bucket. Add the liquid from cooler to kettle. Let the bag sit in the bucket, anything that drains from this can be added up to the 15 min mark. I managed to hit between 59 and 64% depending on which calculator was used. I know I can raise my effeciency but this gave me a good starting point.

Also: If you add a collander to your mash to keep the bag off the bottom, remember to remove it before boiling.

 

[befus]

After my first full volume boil last week, I was not pleased to see 60% efficiency pre boil. I will not accept this as the best I can do, and will not continue BIAB if it is. My plan is to do a bag mash in which I put the grain bag in a 10 gallon cooler and add 6.5 gallons of water to hit my mash temp. After an hour, with a stir half way, Ill remove the bag and let it drain and add the wort to the kettle and let it begin to heat, return the bag to the cooler with 172 degree water (2.5 gallons) for a 10 min. rest @169, dunk sparge and add the wort to my kettle for the boil. I also plan to double crush the grains. This may sound like it defeats the purpose of the thing, but to me the clean-up is still less (the bag sure helps) consisting of washing out a cooler, and the insulation of the cooler will guarantee I maintain my temps. Let ya know how I do.

 

[Beer-lord]

You really shouldn't need to double crush your grains if done correctly. Are you crushing yourself or buying them crushed? And, if you are doing it, what are you using?

 

[chetduggan]

To start off with, make sure you double crush your grains. I BIAB exclusively and no matter what Beersmith says my full boil volume is, I take 2-21/2 gal for dunk sparge at 212 deg. Consistently get 75-80% efficiency into fermenter.

Brew on!!!!

 

[befus]

You really shouldn't need to double crush your grains if done correctly. Are you crushing yourself or buying them crushed? And, if you are doing it, what are you using?

To start off with, make sure you double crush your grains. I BIAB exclusively and no matter what Beersmith says my full boil volume is, I take 2-21/2 gal for dunk sparge at 212 deg. Consistently get 75-80% efficiency into fermenter.

Brew on!!!!

How could a guy get confused on here?

Beer-lord-I must beg to differ; BIAB folks almost unanimously favor double grain crushes. I get my grains crushed by the LHBS or online vendor and then run them through my trusty Corona, btw.

chet-Thanks man, I wasn't going for the sparge with that high of temps, but what have I got to lose? No astringency apparent in your brews I guess?

 

[tonyolympia]

Beer-lord-I must beg to differ; BIAB folks almost unanimously favor double grain crushes. I get my grains crushed by the LHBS or online vendor and then run them through my trusty Corona, btw.

My LHBS could have tight spacing on their mill, but I find I'm getting 80-85% efficiency with a single crush. If anything, I'm trying to *decrease* my efficiency. I want more than sugar from the grain, after all.

The problem might also be that I'm over-sparging. I've been doing a dunk sparge in two separate kettles after the mash, in effect extracting 2nd and 3rd runnings, which I then combine with the mash runnings. For my next brew, I think I'll add the volume of pure water from the third kettle to the boil, rather than sparging in it. That should bring my efficiency down a couple of points, while getting me the boil volume I need.

 

[befus]

My LHBS could have tight spacing on their mill, but I find I'm getting 80-85% efficiency with a single crush. If anything, I'm trying to *decrease* my efficiency.

Lucky (or good) you. Two batches in I have a 68 and 60% Gotta get that up to the mid 70's I hope. You must be a magician. How much volume in the initial BIAB mash?

 

[Veedo]

Last few brews i have had around 80% efficiency by mashing in with 6 gallons, no mash out, no sparge. When i pull the bag i give a fairly good squeeze but i dont spend much longer than a couple minutes on it after it is done dripping. I then top off to my correct pre boil amount as i find this easier than trying to calculate grain absorption. I am crushing with the rebel brewer mill, and keeping my mash ph in check with ro water and salt additions.

 

[tonyolympia]

Lucky (or good) you. Two batches in I have a 68 and 60% Gotta get that up to the mid 70's I hope. You must be a magician. How much volume in the initial BIAB mash?

I usually do 1.5qt/lb. So, to end up with ~5 gallons of moderate gravity wort, I'll mash 7.5 lbs of grain in 2.8 gallons of water in a 3.5 gallon pot (I put the pot in a preheated oven for the duration of the mash--works great). Then I dunk sparge in a separate kettle (or in the past, two kettles) containing the balance of my boil volume plus .75 gallons of water to make up for absorption. The sparge volume is about 4 gallons, though as I mentioned, I'm planning to decrease that, and make up the volume during the boil.

I have three kettles: 3 gallons, 3.5 gallons, and 5 gallons. The 5 gallon is used only for sparging and chilling post-boil. I split the boil between the two smaller kettles. It allows me to make recipes close to five gallons on my ceramic stovetop. It's a bit nerdy compared to the guys working with propane and keggles in the garage, but to be honest, I love my system.

 

[Beer-lord]

How could a guy get confused on here?

Beer-lord-I must beg to differ; BIAB folks almost unanimously favor double grain crushes. I get my grains crushed by the LHBS or online vendor and then run them through my trusty Corona, btw.

chet-Thanks man, I wasn't going for the sparge with that high of temps, but what have I got to lose? No astringency apparent in your brews I guess?

Yes, it can get confusing but I guess I've been getting a good crush from my LHBS and now, my Barley Crusher. If I were to double crush with the Barley Crusher, I'd have nothing but dust!
So, I guess the thing is to know what you need to look for in a good crush and do whatever you need to get it. Most of the kits I buy online have been ok but some, I have had to recrush.
For me, my efficiency is fine at about 80% with my mill.

 

[befus]

I usually do 1.5qt/lb. So, to end up with ~5 gallons of moderate gravity wort, I'll mash 7.5 lbs of grain in 2.8 gallons of water in a 3.5 gallon pot (I put the pot in a preheated oven for the duration of the mash--works great).
I have three kettles: 3 gallons, 3.5 gallons, and 5 gallons. I split the boil between the two smaller kettles. It allows me to make recipes close to five gallons on my ceramic stovetop. It's a bit nerdy compared to the guys working with propane and keggles in the garage, but to be honest, I love my system.

Thanks. My setup is similar except I can fit (and boil) my 9 gal. pot on the stove top. I have propane outside, just haven't ever used it. I'm going to use your figures/method next time and see how I do. I was born (lo those many years ago) in Yakima BTW.

 

[Beer-lord]

I am not trying to throw gas on the fire and appreciate every comment. I don't know everything and have lots more to learn but, just to explain my suggestion about not needing to double crush, I just completed a DIPA today with 15.5 lbs of grain I crushed once with my barley crusher. I ended up with an efficiency of 84.6. My highest every.
Previous was 83.
I am very happy and somewhat surprised. Guess the beer gods are smiling on me.

 

[befus]

Awesome job, no wonder it's Beer-lord! I don't know your secret obviously, but that is pretty much as high as I have ever heard for BIAB efficiency. Guess you can color me jealous.

 

[ultravista]

If helpful ...

While I don't brew in a bag, I mash in a bag using a normal brewing profile in Beersmith, no BIAB profiles.

My mash bag is voile and large enough to be very loose in a 10 gallon Rubbermaid round cooler.

I more or less dunk sparge as I drain the first runnings from the tun to the kettle then add the volume of sparge water, let sit for 10-30 minutes, then drain the second runnings. I put a collander upside down in the tun to allow the bag to drain then dump that into the kettle.

For my last brew, an Arrogant Bastard clone, runnings from the bag drain was 1.030. That is pretty high gravity in my opinion and worth capturing.

So while not a true brew in a bag, my mash in a bag process works very well. Efficiency is greater than 70% consistently.

I have a salad spinner, the little do-hickey where you put wet greens in and spin to draw the water off. This has got me thinking. A larger version, that could handle a few pounds of grain, would extract nearly all of the water off the grains.

A grain spinner would be awesome!

 

[befus]

If helpful ...

While I don't brew in a bag, I mash in a bag using a normal brewing profile in Beersmith, no BIAB profiles.

My mash bag is voile and large enough to be very loose in a 10 gallon Rubbermaid round cooler.

I more or less dunk sparge as I drain the first runnings from the tun to the kettle then add the volume of sparge water, let sit for 10-30 minutes, then drain the second runnings. I put a collander upside down in the tun to allow the bag to drain then dump that into the kettle.

For my last brew, an Arrogant Bastard clone, runnings from the bag drain was 1.030. That is pretty high gravity in my opinion and worth capturing.

So while not a true brew in a bag, my mash in a bag process works very well. Efficiency is greater than 70% consistently.

I have a salad spinner, the little do-hickey where you put wet greens in and spin to draw the water off. This has got me thinking. A larger version, that could handle a few pounds of grain, would extract nearly all of the water off the grains.
A grain spinner would be awesome!

Pretty much my plan if you look back on page two.

Like your idea. Small washing machine on spin cycle with grain bag inside draining into a kettle. :cross:

 

[MrSpiffy]

>>I also squeezed the hell out of the bag and lost very little water. Just use a small pot lid and press the grains to really squish all of the liquid out. It'll likely help efficiency a little bit and use less water.

1. I assume this is while the grain is still in the bag?
2. Do you put the bag in a collander so the wort can drip out?
Or just leave the bag in the pot (after draining it) and press the bag/grain with a small pot lid?

I can imagine some inventive BIAB DIYer will create a "BIAB" press, to make this easier!

I squeeze/press the grain while it's in the bag, yes. It'd be messy otherwise. You could put the bag in a collander, but I don't. I put it in a bucket, holding it up a bit off the bottom, and then press against the side of the bucket with a small pot lid to extract the liquid.

I actually thought about some kind of a "press", kinda like a wine press. Not a bad idea, but with equipment that large, I may as well just go with traditional all-grain brewing. I'm doing BIAB because I didn't want to invest that much. But it would be a nice tool to have.

 

[tonyolympia]

On a smaller scale (stovetop BIAB with an average grist of 7.5 lbs), I find that holding the bag up to drain while squeezing it with rubber gloves works well. A good kneading gets most of the liquid out, and the gloves offer pretty good protection from the hot wort.

 

[TarVolon]

I do a 3.5 gallon mash and a 3.5 gallon sparge for BIAB. Got 80-82% efficiency with a double-crush, and then tried the same method with a single crush and again got over 80% efficiency. I do squeeze the bag though. Also, I've noticed that holding the bag in the air is significantly more effective at getting all the drippings than letting it sit in a colander. The only purpose of the colander is to have a place to put the grain bag when my arms get tired.

 

[omokoro]

I double batch sparge and consistently get 90% efficiency. My lauter tun is a home depot bucket with a colander placed on it. I collect my wort then place the bag back in the kettle. Then I add my sparge water and let that sit for 10 minutes.

I did a one gallon pilot batch of an imperial stout where I did full volume no sparge, I hit 75% efficiency with that method.

 

[divrguy]

I've been getting between 80-84% efficiency. Just hanging and squeezing. Full volume and in a few cases back off a few lbs of grain and add dry malt so I can have a thinner wort. Been working great. I love BIAB

 

[mudarra]

I use an 8 gallon boil kettle infused with 6 gallons of water. This will fit up to an 11 lb grain bill. I double crush. No-sparge, I pull the grains out at the end of the rest and place a small grill rack across the pot to set the bag on till the run-off turns into a slow drip (this usually takes about 10 minutes).
I don't top off so my batch sizes come out to about 4.5 gallons post boil. I usually get 76-77% brewhouse efficiency, and on one batch hit 80%.
This is only 5-7% lower than what I got when I used my igloo cooler MLT with double batch sparge (single crush).
And I can do the boil on my gas stove in the kitchen, so weather doesn't affect my brew schedule.

To me the no-sparge method is the biggest benefit to BIAB. Its a simple brewday (3-4 hours instead of 6 hours with my Igloo MLT) with one piece of equipment to clean at the end of the day.
I still use my igloo MLT on batches that need larger than 11 lb grain bills. I don't drink a lot, so the smaller batch sizes aren't a problem for me as I still have a lot of beer in my pipeline, and with the simplicity of no-sparge BIAB, I have done four batches in the period of one week, which has been a great tool when wanting to try a lot of different recipes in a short period of time.

 

[Doed]

I have the 15.5G Bayou Classic pot with basket. I do 5 gallon batches so I use the full volume of water. I can hoist the basket out of the water and just let it hang over the pot for a while. I squeeze the bag as much as possible while it is hanging there. I just purchased a Barley Crusher but haven't used it yet. When I puchased my grain online, I always asked that my grain be double crushed because I BIAB. I was getting between 72-74% effeciency so I'm hoping that when I begin crushing the grain myself, my efficiency numbers will go up a little more.