BIAB induction indoors: avantco burner

[fun4stuff]

I have been thinking about trying to find a way to brew indoors. I really want to keep it simple and stick to BIAB.

I've read about people using an induction burner (avantco ic3500).

I'd also have to buy a new pot. Was looking at the bayou 1064 (15 gallon). I read the anvils are nice... Not sure they are worth 2x price though.

I'd also plan on adding a steam condenser rather than a vent.

https://www.brew-boss.com/Condenser-Boss-Boil-Kettle-Condenser-p/cb-bb-apmount.htm


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What are your thoughts? Seems to be cheaper to do things this way rather than an all in one setting... Still would be a simple brew process and easy to clean. With the 3500 watts, My brew days wouldn't be significantly longer.

 

[McKnuckle]

The Avantco is great; I've used one for a few years now. I typically brewed 2.5-3 gallon batches on it in an 8 gallon (14") kettle, but it will boil plenty more than that. I would not exceed a kettle diameter of 14" though, due to fitting on the burner's surface.

Make sure your pot is induction-ready. The Bayou products are a bit thin, and don't have quite as good a magnetic response as pots with a heavier, multi-clad bottom. Although I've used my 11 gallon Bayou on the burner before, so it does work.

 

[downzero]

I put a 15 gallon pot right on my stove. Why can't you do that?

 

[Carolina_Matt]

If you're looking for an inexpensive 240V ~15 gallon system, have you considered the Digiboil? It's also 3500 Watts, with the added bonus that it has temperature control so you can set it and forget it while bringing it up to mash temperature. If you use a semi-frequent coupon code, it'll be less expensive than the Avantco and a new kettle.

 

[McKnuckle]

The Digiboil holds temp with a wide tolerance of +/- 5 degrees F. Honestly, the Avantco is easier to control than that, just by playing with its settings and using insulation. Not that the Digiboil is a bad product, and it's definitely inexpensive, but it's useful to call out this limitation. It's really "kinda sorta" temperature control.

 

[Carolina_Matt]

By temperature control, I meant more in the lines of getting up to strike temperature. I have the 120v Digiboil, and when I set it to 159 degrees I can just walk away and let it do its thing. When I'm ready to brew, it's 159 degrees. With the Avantco, my understanding is that the settings aren't as specific so it's hard to get to an exact strike temperature.

During the mash, I unplug the digiboil (just like I used to turn off the flame when I was using propane). I cover it with a moving blanket, and it only loses a few degrees during the hour-long mash.

 

[McKnuckle]

The Avantco has a wattage mode and a temperature mode. You can actually set the latter in increments of 10°, from 140-212 (max).

The temp mode is not super accurate, but if anything, it climbs a wee bit. It doesn’t drop.

It’s somewhat useful because let’s say you mash in at 152°. Set the burner to 150, and it will keep the wort from losing much heat, even if it’s not precise. It will probably climb a degree or two, but it won’t cool down.

 

[Valve1138]

Love my Avantco 3500.

Using it with a 10 gallon MegaPot 1.2.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I would be a little cautious holding temps with an induction burner.

I repaired a bag for a fellow that burned a couple holes in his bag with an induction burner.

Bottom line imo, any direct heated mash needs to be stirred, at least occasionally to distribute the heat....
Ymmv

 

[cubalz]

I agree with Wilserbrewer but a work around for that is to measure a couple inches from the bottom of the kettle when giving the needed length for your custom BIAB order. Shortening the bag length by 2 inches will keep it from laying on the bottom of the kettle and potentially burning.

 

[IslandLizard]

I would not exceed a kettle diameter of 14" though, due to fitting on the burner's surface.

The width of the kettle seems to be of no concern. I've used a 15 gallon 17" diameter tri-ply bottomed kettle without any problems on the IC3500.

I now mostly use a 14" wide 8 gallon kettle (5.5 gallon batches) that overhangs the plate by 1/2" on the sides, and the outer marking on the glass plate by at least 2". There's no problem with that whatsoever.

 

[IslandLizard]

Shortening the bag length by 2 inches will keep it from laying on the bottom of the kettle and potentially burning.

How certain are you the center of the bag won't droop down right on top of the hottest center area of the induction heated bottom, and scorch the bag? Certainly when that bottom is single ply and thin.

Maybe with some 1/2" protective riser you can prevent it, but without recirculation it will likely overheat the wort/mash near the bottom, potentially denaturing the enzymes while the top of the mash remains much cooler than ideal for mashing.

 

[Cato1507]

I still have my Avantco and when I was using it for my BIAB I had my best mash control by using the wattage function at 500w when I need to add heat during the mash.
I would need to stir it to keep even heat distribution, and it would take a couple minutes to raise the temps back up, but it never scorched my bag.

Now it's a backup heat source after I decided it was time to upgrade. I now use a controller and electric kettle with a heat coil for my BIAB.

 

[fun4stuff]

@Cato1507 :

Can you give more specifics on your current setup? What are pros/cons? Better temp control?

 

[IslandLizard]

I still have my Avantco and when I was using it for my BIAB I had my best mash control by using the wattage function at 500w when I need to add heat during the mash.
I would need to stir it to keep even heat distribution, and it would take a couple minutes to raise the temps back up, but it never scorched my bag.

Thick tri-ply bottom?

The stirring surely must have helped to distribute the heat so the kettle's bottom wouldn't get anywhere near nylon/dacron scorching temps. I can see 500W not getting crazy hot. It cycles off more than on.

Using one of the temp settings may be actually much worse, as the sensor is underneath the glass. The heat generated in the kettle's bottom needs to travel downward through the glass to register there.

 

[IslandLizard]

I still have my Avantco and when I was using it for my BIAB I had my best mash control by using the wattage function at 500w when I need to add heat during the mash.
I would need to stir it to keep even heat distribution, and it would take a couple minutes to raise the temps back up, but it never scorched my bag.

Thick tri-ply bottom?

The stirring surely must have helped to distribute the heat so the kettle's bottom wouldn't get anywhere near nylon/dacron scorching temps. I can see 500W not getting crazy hot. It cycles off more than on.

Using one of the temp settings may be actually much worse, as the sensor is underneath the glass. The heat generated in the kettle's bottom needs to travel downward through the glass to register there.

 

[cubalz]

How certain are you the center of the bag won't droop down right on top of the hottest center area of the induction heated bottom, and scorch the bag? Certainly when that bottom is single ply and thin.

Maybe with some 1/2" protective riser you can prevent it, but without recirculation it will likely overheat the wort/mash near the bottom, potentially denaturing the enzymes while the top of the mash remains much cooler than ideal for mashing.

None of my Wilserbags have stretched beyond 2" in the years I have been using them to make 1.048-1.060 SG beers. I have verified this using a paddle and pushing down on the center of the bag after mashing in. I use only Spike Brewing tri ply kettles which are certainly not thin by any measure.

 

[Bilsch]

Spike 10 gal kettles on avantco 3500 plates here and the combo works great.

 

[Cato1507]

Thick tri-ply bottom?

The stirring surely must have helped to distribute the heat so the kettle's bottom wouldn't get anywhere near nylon/dacron scorching temps. I can see 500W not getting crazy hot. It cycles off more than on.

Using one of the temp settings may be actually much worse, as the sensor is underneath the glass. The heat generated in the kettle's bottom needs to travel downward through the glass to register there.

Not sure how thick. I used a 5.5 SsBrewtech kettle and a 7.5gal Anvil kettle on the avantco. Neither had any problems with adding heat during the mash, but I never went above 800w .

 

[McKnuckle]

Right to all of the above... It's not super precise, but the heat is easily modulated from gentle to extreme. You have direct access to the heat control buttons, and all you need is a thermometer, something to stir with, and some insulation to chuck over the whole mess. Easy peasy. If you require automation and recirculation, it's probably not for you.

My only complaint about the Avantco is actually that the fan runs a bit loud. I have to turn the music up.

 

[Cato1507]

@Cato1507 :

Can you give more specifics on your current setup? What are pros/cons? Better temp control?

Sure. My current set up is a 10gal 240v Blichmann kettle with factory whirlpool port kit installed, Brew Commander 240v controller, and Riptide pump.
Only con I can think of was the cost of the upgrade compared to the induction burner.
Plus side are all the things that I wanted to accomplish with the new system.
The Boil Coil is ULWD and does not scorch my Brew bag, and I run the whirlpool during the entire mash.
It keeps the grain bed pretty fluid and if I stir during the mash it only fluctuates by 2 degrees at most.

Controller is great for brewing. The mash program is pretty much hands off, once I hit strike temp and dough in. I go back in house and can weigh hops, get some coffee or lunch. I usually stir about halfway through the mash out of habit.

Boil is also programmable except I tend to be around more to do hop additions.

Brew days are a lot more fun and so much more precise and stress free with the controller and whirlpool pump.

 

[fun4stuff]

Sure. My current set up is a 10gal 240v Blichmann kettle with factory whirlpool port kit installed, Brew Commander 240v controller, and Riptide pump.
Only con I can think of was the cost of the upgrade compared to the induction burner.
Plus side are all the things that I wanted to accomplish with the new system.
The Boil Coil is ULWD and does not scorch my Brew bag, and I run the whirlpool during the entire mash.
It keeps the grain bed pretty fluid and if I stir during the mash it only fluctuates by 2 degrees at most.

Controller is great for brewing. The mash program is pretty much hands off, once I hit strike temp and dough in. I go back in house and can weigh hops, get some coffee or lunch. I usually stir about halfway through the mash out of habit.

Boil is also programmable except I tend to be around more to do hop additions.

Brew days are a lot more fun and so much more precise and stress free with the controller and whirlpool pump.

Awesome, Thanks for sharing!

 

[wilserbrewer]

I agree with Wilserbrewer but a work around for that is to measure a couple inches from the bottom of the kettle when giving the needed length for your custom BIAB order. Shortening the bag length by 2 inches will keep it from laying on the bottom of the kettle and potentially burning.

Glad this works for you! But I would imagine your giving up a fair amount of kettle volume to mash volume....

A bag isn’t a FB, and droops down to a teardrop shape.

Anyways glad this works for you, easier imo to heat gently and stir...jmo

 

[Skeptonomicon]

I have used the IC3500 BIAB setup, both with and without recirculation during mash. My impression is that you have to really watch it constantly. I have to multitask during PH measurements and adjustments, and it has gotten away from me a few times resulting in under attenuation.
As far as the bag burning on the bottom, I found using a false bottom solves this problem, and I suggest it for any BIAB, independent of the heat source.
I am considering a full automated system to replace the induction system so I can lower my stress levels during the brew.

 

[Cato1507]

I have used the IC3500 BIAB setup, both with and without recirculation during mash. My impression is that you have to really watch it constantly. I have to multitask during PH measurements and adjustments, and it has gotten away from me a few times resulting in under attenuation.
As far as the bag burning on the bottom, I found using a false bottom solves this problem, and I suggest it for any BIAB, independent of the heat source.
I am considering a full automated system to replace the induction system so I can lower my stress levels during the brew.

I had to baby sit the IC3500 as well, BIAB, though I never had any scorching problems. Maintaining a constant mash temp was an issue, plus as you mentioned it was hard to multi task and not have something get away from you.

Dave Knott at High Gravity hooked me up with a Blichmann 10gal 240v kettle w/whirlpool and the Brew Commander controller. The Boil Coil is ULWD and will not scorch the bag no matter how much is touching the coils.

Now my brew days are great and stress free. I program the mash, dough in and stir, put the lid on, turn on the riptide pump and leave the garage. I can do other things and not worry. Boil and hop additions are programmed as well.

 

[jtgoral]

I use Avantco IC3500 with Bayou 1064 and a false bottom.

For mash I set it for 3500W to bring 8.5 gallons of water to 150-155F, add grains to the bag and then switch temperature control from 3500W to 160-170F, so I do not have to do much for the next hour. The lid is on. Next 3500W to rise the temperature to 168-170F and then switch control to 180F for 10 minutes.

Next again 3500W after removing the bag and when it boils I reduce to 2500W-2700W without the lid. After 1hr boil I get ~5.5 gallon of beer to cool down for pitching yeast.

 

[jtgoral]

To test the pot for induction heating I use a fridge magnet. If it sticks to the pot the pot should be OK for induction heating even if the pot is marked as stainless steel.

 

[IslandLizard]

To test the pot for induction heating I use a fridge magnet. If it sticks to the pot the pot should be OK for induction heating even if the pot is marked as stainless steel.

That's not entirely true.

Although all stainless pots to which a magnet sticks are induction ready, many pots to which a magnet does not stick may be induction ready. For those latter ones, unless you try, there's no other way to find out.
For example:
I have an 8 gallon Polar Ware kettle a magnet won't stick to, but works fine on induction.

Those that are marked or specified to be "Induction Ready" or have the Induction Heating (coil) symbol should all be, regardless.

 

[carlk47]

Sure. My current set up is a 10gal 240v Blichmann kettle with factory whirlpool port kit installed, Brew Commander 240v controller, and Riptide pump.
Only con I can think of was the cost of the upgrade compared to the induction burner.
Plus side are all the things that I wanted to accomplish with the new system.
The Boil Coil is ULWD and does not scorch my Brew bag, and I run the whirlpool during the entire mash.
It keeps the grain bed pretty fluid and if I stir during the mash it only fluctuates by 2 degrees at most.

Controller is great for brewing. The mash program is pretty much hands off, once I hit strike temp and dough in. I go back in house and can weigh hops, get some coffee or lunch. I usually stir about halfway through the mash out of habit.

Boil is also programmable except I tend to be around more to do hop additions.

Brew days are a lot more fun and so much more precise and stress free with the controller and whirlpool pump.

Are you using a basket or is the brew bag resting right on the boil coil during mashing? Love this setup and was thinking of something very similar but with the 7.5g 120v kettle for 3.5 gal batches. Have more pics of brew day and the inside of the kettle? Thanks!

 

[Cato1507]

Are you using a basket or is the brew bag resting right on the boil coil during mashing? Love this setup and was thinking of something very similar but with the 7.5g 120v kettle for 3.5 gal batches. Have more pics of brew day and the inside of the kettle? Thanks!

Brew bag rests right on the boil coil and maintains the temp during the entire mash. Smallest size batch I can make and keep the coils covered in liquid is 3 gal, so I usually plan a min 3.5 gal batch to make sure.

 

[carlk47]

Brew bag rests right on the boil coil and maintains the temp during the entire mash. Smallest size batch I can make and keep the coils covered in liquid is 3 gal, so I usually plan a min 3.5 gal batch to make sure.

Awesome great info and pics! Think I might head in this direction as I sell through some of my old equipment

 

[BigChas]

I don't have access to 240v, do you think the Avantco IC1800 would be ok for small batches (2.5-3 gal). I would be using the Anvil or SSBrewtech 5.5 gal pot.

 

[IslandLizard]

I don't have access to 240v, do you think the Avantco IC1800 would be ok for small batches (2.5-3 gal). I would be using the Anvil or SSBrewtech 5.5 gal pot.

As long as it's a true 1800W induction plate it should work fine for those size batches. Besides the Avantco, there are others in the 1800W range. But the Avantco does have an industrial, more rugged look with its stainless frame and the no frills, no fufu approach. For $50 it's hard to beat, yes.
With 1800W it will take longer (twice as long) to heat up or get to a boil than 3500W, but once there it should be able sustain it, possibly dialed down somewhat.

For example, when I make 3 or 4.5 liter starters (double/triple starter batches) in a 2.25 gallon pot, once it boils I dial down to 1200/1500W to a simmer for a few minutes. I put the lid on to get the steam to sanitize the headspace and lid.

You can always put some insulation around the kettle, such as a double or triple layer of Reflectix to reduce heat loss. Perhaps keep the lid on partially. Put some insulation on the lid too. You don't need a wild rolling boil, a good simmer (surface rippling) is sufficient for brewing.

On a side note, most electrical services in homes are 240V (double pole). Do you mean you don't have a 240V outlet where you want to brew?

 

[IanMC]

For those of you with the Avantco, do you just put your kettle directly onto the burner, or do you have some kind of additional support? I'm a bit scared about the weight of the kettle + wort being too heavy, and this fear is reinforced by the examples of people on this forum who have built ultra-reinforced steel support systems for their induction cooktops...

 

[Cato1507]

For those of you with the Avantco, do you just put your kettle directly onto the burner, or do you have some kind of additional support? I'm a bit scared about the weight of the kettle + wort being too heavy, and this fear is reinforced by the examples of people on this forum who have built ultra-reinforced steel support systems for their induction cooktops...

My model the IC3500 has a metal reinforced outer edge. I've done 5 gal batches in a 7.5 gal Anvil kettle on it with no issues at all.

 

[IslandLizard]

For those of you with the Avantco, do you just put your kettle directly onto the burner, or do you have some kind of additional support? I'm a bit scared about the weight of the kettle + wort being too heavy, and this fear is reinforced by the examples of people on this forum who have built ultra-reinforced steel support systems for their induction cooktops...

No extra framing required for the IC3500.

My model the IC3500 has a metal reinforced outer edge. I've done 5 gal batches in a 7.5 gal Anvil kettle on it with no issues at all.

Exactly! The IC3500's stainless frame is very sturdy. The glass plate is level with the upper frame bezel.
I've used them with a full 15 gallon kettle on top. No problems. Just took longer to heat.
Once boiling, with some insulation, and the lid half way on, it was just the same as with my 8 gallon kettle. Only twice the wort.

 

[soccerdad]

I would not change process even if I changed equipment. I heat to strike temp, cut the heat, add grist and stir, cover it up and walk away for 40 minutes. I would do the same with induction.
On the very rare occasion when I need to bump heat, I gather the bag at the top, get it off the bottom and bring heat up a degree or two, then cut the heat again.

 

[IanMC]

No extra framing required for the IC3500.

Exactly! The IC3500's stainless frame is very sturdy. The glass plate is level with the upper frame bezel.
I've used them with a full 15 gallon kettle on top. No problems. Just took longer to heat.
Once boiling, with some insulation, and the lid half way on, it was just the same as with my 8 gallon kettle. Only twice the wort.

Wow! That's great news. Thanks for putting my mind at ease!

 

[cbier60]

FYI. The IC3500 is $139.99 with free shipping with code 224DEALS through midnight tomorrow (2/26/2020).