BIAB attempt at Tree House IPA

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

redrocker652002

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2022
Messages
1,760
Reaction score
1,574
Location
South San Francisco CA
In watching the Apartment Brewer do the Tree House IPA, I was thinking I could do it myself. But, after looking at the notes in the Youtube vid I realize there are some steps I am not able to do. Whirlpool is the first one that comes to mind. I don't have the equipment. Pressure fermentation is the next. Using a bucket fermenter that would not be able to hold any pressure takes me out of that part of it as well. Next is the O2 exposure. When I dry hop I simply open the lid, put my dry hops in and close the lid. Leaving the draw string hanging out of the bucket to help me suspend the dry hops about mid bucket as to not settle down into the yeast at the bottom of the bucket. I don't trub dump either as I have no way to do that. I guess my point is, I would really like to give this a go, but wondering if my lack of equipment is going to make this beer unsuccessful right from the get go.

Here is a link to the video.

Any input, as this would be my first time doing a starter and the ingredients are a bit on the costly side compared to what I usually do. So I would hate to screw it up by not even being in the right ball park equipment wise.,

Any input is welcomed
 
NEIPAs fermented in a bucket, thus making O2 exposure guaranteed are hard to pull off. Saying this from experience. You could use the magnet trick to dry hop and you could add ascorbic acid along the way to help reduce the chance of oxidation. And, you could also brew a 1/2 batch to lessen the cost making you feel better if the batch doesn't turn out.

Those are the things I would do if I were in your shoes.
 
I think the best you can do without getting any fancy new equipment is to ferment in your bucket and do a closed transfer to a purged keg with a floating dip tube for dry hopping. Then cold crash and do another closed transfer to a second purged keg to carbonate and serve.
 
I think the best you can do without getting any fancy new equipment is to ferment in your bucket and do a closed transfer to a purged keg with a floating dip tube for dry hopping. Then cold crash and do another closed transfer to a second purged keg to carbonate and serve.
Yes, that would be perfect, except all but one of my kegs does not fit in either of my fridges that are dedicated to beer. LOL. But that is a good idea, maybe I can work something out though.
 
I think the best you can do without getting any fancy new equipment is to ferment in your bucket and do a closed transfer to a purged keg with a floating dip tube for dry hopping. Then cold crash and do another closed transfer to a second purged keg to carbonate and serve.
Might as well ferment in the keg!
 
Whirlpool is the first one that comes to mind.
This is easy. Just drop your kettle to the desired whirlpool temp and stir every 5 minutes or so for the desired time. More labor intensive but it does the job.
Pressure fermentation
I don’t know the reason to pressure ferment a NEIPA. Typically pressure fermentation is done to speed up fermentation without getting too many esters from the yeast. IE, fast lager ferments so you’re not waiting 2 months to tap a keg. I really don’t think this is too important with an ale yeast in a NEIPA.
I don't trub dump either as I have no way to do that.
I don’t think this is necessary or worth the effort for a fast fermented NEIPA, even if you had a conical fermenter. (Off topic, I sold both my conical fermenters and went back to buckets. I might be the minority here but they were bulky, cumbersome, tough to clean, and didn’t improve my brewing).

O2 exposure, that’ll be your biggest challenge. If you do all you can to limit it, you “should” be ok. NEIPA’s are toughest for this, not the other reasons you listed.

Will it be the exact beer? No. Will it be the exact beer if you followed this process to a T? Still no. It’s tough to duplicate a commercial beer. I think the goal is close replication that tastes good. Brew it! And follow up here.
 
I made a bunch of changes to start making what I consider good NEIPA's. One that you could easily do to combat some oxidation is adding 3g of ascorbic acid to the mash, .5g when kegging. I can't isolate all the variables I changed to say that this one change made the big difference, but AA is cheap on amazon so why not give it a shot. This is the commonly cited video with more details.

 
I would really like to give this a go, but wondering if my lack of equipment is going to make this beer unsuccessful right from the get go.
One thing I would note (since this got posted to the BAIB Brewing forum) is there is really no significant challenges that BIAB introduces as far as brewing Hazy IPAs. The challenges are mostly cold side, and dealing with large amounts of hops in the kettle.

I am a BIAB brewer, and I brewed my version of this recipe recently. I had to add a sparge into my process because I wanted to push my system in order to make 11 gals of wort, but I would normally do a full volume BIAB mash with this type of beer.

Related to some of your topics:

Whirlpool: I typically cool my wort down to around 180F using an immersion chiller, then steep the hops for 20 minutes. I often come back and stir them 2 or 3 times. I don't use a pump.

Pressure fermentation: I don't see this as very important for making a Hazy IPA.

Trub dump: My fermenters (usually a Fermonster, sometimes a stainless Brewbucket) do not have the ability to dump the trub, yeast or hops. This has not been a huge issue for me.

O2 exposure: I do take extra steps to avoid cold side oxidation. I avoid opening my fermenter, I use a mylar balloon to avoid suck back during cold crashing or when taking gravity samples, and I do a closed transfer into a purged keg. I have played around a little with anti-oxidants (like Metabisulfite, Ascorbic Acid, and Oxblox 3D). I do pull off the stopper on my fermenter and quickly add my dry hops. While this bothers me a little, I have not noticed any signs of oxidation. I have done the "dry hop with magnets" approach a few times with good results.

My video:
 
The difference in volume I've observed between ferment-and-transfer and ferment-and-serve has been on the order of 2 pints.
I guess you must not brew very big beers. If I filled a fermenter to within 2 pints of the top with most of my recipes I'd have all sorts of blow off. Also, how do you dry hop? You've got no head space for the magnets in a bag trick and I'm not a fan of just opening the keg.
 
I guess you must not brew very big beers. If I filled a fermenter to within 2 pints of the top with most of my recipes I'd have all sorts of blow off. Also, how do you dry hop? You've got no head space for the magnets in a bag trick and I'm not a fan of just opening the keg.
I tapped an 8%+ IPA last week. That's usually the max for me.

For blow off I attach a tube to the gas stud into a bucket until fermentation starts to die down then install the dip tube, screw on the valve, and spund.

For DH I don't use magnets. I turn off the CO2, vent, crack the lid, and then turn on the CO2. This allows me to pull the lid so I can add the dry hops and seal. Then five cycles of pressurize and vent. Repeat to remove the DHs 24-48 hours later.

I've never noticed oxidation. That being said, I don't think I've ever had an O2 sensitive brew last more than 6 weeks in the keg so maybe it would show up later. I have had non-O2 sensitive brews go for 6 months before kicking without perceptible oxidation.
 
One thing I would note (since this got posted to the BAIB Brewing forum) is there is really no significant challenges that BIAB introduces as far as brewing Hazy IPAs. The challenges are mostly cold side, and dealing with large amounts of hops in the kettle.

I am a BIAB brewer, and I brewed my version of this recipe recently. I had to add a sparge into my process because I wanted to push my system in order to make 11 gals of wort, but I would normally do a full volume BIAB mash with this type of beer.

Related to some of your topics:

Whirlpool: I typically cool my wort down to around 180F using an immersion chiller, then steep the hops for 20 minutes. I often come back and stir them 2 or 3 times. I don't use a pump.

Pressure fermentation: I don't see this as very important for making a Hazy IPA.

Trub dump: My fermenters (usually a Fermonster, sometimes a stainless Brewbucket) do not have the ability to dump the trub, yeast or hops. This has not been a huge issue for me.

O2 exposure: I do take extra steps to avoid cold side oxidation. I avoid opening my fermenter, I use a mylar balloon to avoid suck back during cold crashing or when taking gravity samples, and I do a closed transfer into a purged keg. I have played around a little with anti-oxidants (like Metabisulfite, Ascorbic Acid, and Oxblox 3D). I do pull off the stopper on my fermenter and quickly add my dry hops. While this bothers me a little, I have not noticed any signs of oxidation. I have done the "dry hop with magnets" approach a few times with good results.

My video:

Funny thing, I have watched many of your vids and had no idea they were yours. Cool. I just watched the closed transfer vid and one thing that I have found is that the pressure relieve hole in the spigot, for me, shoots beer out when I try and hook up a purged keg. So, what I do is open the PRV on the keg to relieve the pressure but still hopefully keep the O2 out. I have not tried taking the blow off tube from the fermenter and put it in the top of the bucket, that I will try next. What I have done, and I know it isn't the best, was to leave the airlock in and hopefully minimize the O2 suck back, but I am sure that hasn't worked out. I will for sure try the blow off tube next time as it seems much better.

Now, on to your response. First off, I would like to thank you and the others for posting replies. My cold side process is definitely in need of help. I use a NB bucket that does not have a larger opening to dry hop, so what I have had to do is open the lid and drop a hop bag into the bucket and seal up the bucket again as quickly as I can. Typically the bucket lid is only open a minute or two, but I know there is some O2 that gets in. Other than those few things, my process is very much the same as yours. I have not tried to cool crash, as I will call it, but might give that a go. You mention a mylar balloon, I will do a bit of looking to see if that is something I can pull off with my bucket style fermenter. With that said, I might give this a go just for the heck of it. We will see. Once again, thanks to you and all who have replied to my posts.
 
This is easy. Just drop your kettle to the desired whirlpool temp and stir every 5 minutes or so for the desired time. More labor intensive but it does the job.

I don’t know the reason to pressure ferment a NEIPA. Typically pressure fermentation is done to speed up fermentation without getting too many esters from the yeast. IE, fast lager ferments so you’re not waiting 2 months to tap a keg. I really don’t think this is too important with an ale yeast in a NEIPA.

I don’t think this is necessary or worth the effort for a fast fermented NEIPA, even if you had a conical fermenter. (Off topic, I sold both my conical fermenters and went back to buckets. I might be the minority here but they were bulky, cumbersome, tough to clean, and didn’t improve my brewing).

O2 exposure, that’ll be your biggest challenge. If you do all you can to limit it, you “should” be ok. NEIPA’s are toughest for this, not the other reasons you listed.

Will it be the exact beer? No. Will it be the exact beer if you followed this process to a T? Still no. It’s tough to duplicate a commercial beer. I think the goal is close replication that tastes good. Brew it! And follow up here.
I have only used bucket fermenters simply because that is what was in the starter kit I bought a few years ago. LOL.

I agree totally with what you posted. Will it be the same? Nope. Will it be a good beer? I hope so, it certainly looks good. LOL.

I think I am going to try it. I have one more batch I need to get out of the way and check my hop inventory to see what I have. I will also need to break out a few more hop bags as I think with that bit a dry hop it might be best to split them into 3 bags. Just a thought, but I do appreciate the replies I am getting. Thank you all
 
Any input is welcomed
Given how far you've come since you first signed up, I really think it's time for you to consider spending on about $85 + shipping..... Once you can do true, fully closed transfers, the difference in taste is an epiphany, and it really sounds to me like the beers you're making deserve it.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/fermonster7gal.htm
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/fermonster-lid.htm
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/balllockbulk_floatingdiptube.htm
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/fermonstercarrier.htm
...Just sayin'
:mug:
 
In my opinion, and from experience, spending $75 on a NEIPA recipe and fermenting in a bucket with so much risk of O2 exposure is not worth it . You'd be better off spending that money towards better cold side equipment that allows you to brew those types of beers.

That being said, there's plenty of suggestions above on how to make this work. I just never got it to work consistently when I fermented in a bucket. I think one of my NEIPAs was good for about a week before the oxidation affected the beer.

Since investing in a Fermzilla with the pressure kit, I've been able to brew pretty good NEIPAs
 
Given how far you've come since you first signed up, I really think it's time for you to consider spending on about $85 + shipping..... Once you can do true, fully closed transfers, the difference in taste is an epiphany, and it really sounds to me like the beers you're making deserve it.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/fermonster7gal.htm
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/fermonster-lid.htm
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/balllockbulk_floatingdiptube.htm
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/fermonstercarrier.htm
...Just sayin'
:mug:
OK, so looking at this stuff it looks pretty cool. I have to admit that I like my buckets, but it would be fun to see the process of fermentation as it goes. A couple of questions though. It appears the lid it solid, so I would need to drill holes for the posts and an airlock? How much pressure would this hold during the transfer of beer from the fermenter to the keg? Stupid questions I am sure, but I have not had my coffee and it is 0530 and I have been awake most of the night. LOL. If you have photos of the setup it might make it easier for me to understand it. Thank you for the suggestion, I really appreciate it. And thank you also for the kind words. I am having fun with the hobby and it keeps me out of my wife's hair most of the time. LOL
 
It appears the lid it solid, so I would need to drill holes for the posts and an airlock?
Yes. Air lock is optional. Gas post can be used for blow off or purging kegs.
How much pressure would this hold during the transfer of beer from the fermenter to the keg?
Not a lot, but you only need a couple of PSI to do a transfer, especially if you let gravity help.
If you have photos of the setup it might make it easier for me to understand it.
The famous @Dgallo fermonster floating diptube modification. Insanely long thread, but worth a skim.

1717851405920.jpeg
 
^^That! Definitely at least skim through the Fermonster thread, another worthy bucket-replacement consideration is the simple but well featured Fermzilla All-Rounder... a bit difficult to move around when full, but takes all the pressure you need to do pressure fermentations while still being light and easy to handle. I really believe your beers deserve full O2 exclusion.
:mug:
 
If you have a 3d printer I can send you a file for a design I made that allows pressure closed transfer with a 5 gallon bucket. I used it with buckets and now use the same technique on my Fermonster now that I upgraded. Much less hardware than all the stuff posted above.
 
Last edited:
If you have a 3d printer I can send you a file for a design I made that allows pressure transfer with a 5 gallon bucket. I used it with buckets and now use the same technique on my Fermonster now that I upgraded. Much less hardware than all the stuff posted above.
Pics?

Brew on :mug:
 
Pics?

Brew on :mug:
Sorry I wrote "pressure" and should have prolly put "closed" transfer. If you wanted to do a pressure with dip tube you'd need the same amount of hardware probably. But I did find with the good bucket lids you get at the hardware store, not the brew bucket lids, that a brew bucket can handle a couple psi to help along the closed transfer, same with the Fermonster. I am at work and don't have pics of the installed set up just the part. I use this with a carbonation cap in the lid of the bucket or Fermonster. Just one instead of two like the other model. It allows me to purge a keg with fermentation. Then I use a spigot in the bucket/fermonster for beer transfer. Spigot is installed above trub line. One line spigot to keg then another line keg to carbonation cap on top. Give the keg like 2psi before you hook it all up and closed transfer with some pressure to speed things up.
tempImageO3GwtM.jpg
tempImagem62OGL.jpg
 
Awesome. Thanks, that makes it much easier. Other than the gas line hooked to the top of the fermenter, that is almost what I do with the bucket. Let gravity do it's thing. I was thinking of trying to just hook the tube you have running into the bucket back into the fermenter thru the airlock hole to keep the O2 out that way. But, I like your setup better. I might check and see if Austin Homebrew has the fermzilla as I have a 60 dollar gift card burning hole in my pocket. LOL
 
If you have a 3d printer I can send you a file for a design I made that allows pressure closed transfer with a 5 gallon bucket. I used it with buckets and now use the same technique on my Fermonster now that I upgraded. Much less hardware than all the stuff posted above.
Unfortunately I do not have one of those. I am not much in the tech savvy category, but thank you for the offer.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top