Beta-glucane rest with eBIAB

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zse

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Hello,

Long time reader, first time poster here.
In 2 days I'm brewing roggenbier with 50% of rye. I read in several sources that beta-glucane rest is highly desirable for such a high amount of rye. However I never did step mashing on m system yet. So I was thinking what would be the best way to do it. I using SS eKettle so normally (i.e. single infusion at succ temp) bag scorching is not a problem but I have no idea what will happen when I will be raising the heat after the beta-glucane rest. But then I remembered that I can hang the bag above the kettle. So I came up with the plan:
1. Heat the water (full volume) to 40°C
2. Load all the malt
3. Do the beta-glucane rest for 20 min
4. Raise the bag with malt from the kettle
5. Heat the wort to 66°C for succ rest
6. Lower the bag and continue as usual

Does this approach make sense? Or should I just scratch rest at 40°C on do classic single infusion?

Thank you!
 

doug293cz

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You could do the raise the bag thing, but you need to heat the wort higher than your next rest temp since dropping the bag back into the wort will lower the temp significantly. This is similar to why you heat strike water to a higher temp than the mash target temp. The calculations are similar, but more complicated because of the variable amount of wort held in the grain.

For step mashing you would be better off with a false bottom and recirculation pump.

Brew on :mug:
 

AlexKay

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Rye is actually relatively low in beta glucans. It’s arabinoxylans (5-carbon sugar polymers) that make it viscous and gummy, and they’re more or less impervious to endogenous enzymes.

I’m a little skeptical of the need to ever do a beta-glucan rest, but I’m very skeptical of it helping much for rye.
 

Bassman2003

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If you can, I would infuse with hot water rather than run the element below gelantinization temps. In my experience, the particles tend to attract and stick to heating elements at the lower temp ranges. I am assuming you have a heating element with your eBIAB!
 

RM-MN

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My take is that you need that beta glucan rest for a conventional mash tun since rye is sticky and has no hull of its own to form the filter bed. While the beta glucan rest may not be a big help, anything is worth trying.
With BIAB, if the mash is sticky, you just force the wort out by squeezing the bag of grains until it does. Yes, with that much rye it takes a good squeeze but it can be done with BIAB but not with a conventional mash tun. I'm too lazy to perform the calculations necessary to accurately predict the temperature that the water would have to be to reach the proper temp for the amylase enzymes to work being that one would need to know the weight of the bag of grain and how much heat it would have lost while hanging above the pot while said heating was occuring. It's a complicated set of equations and they change depending on the temperature of the air and whether the wind was blowing or not. KISS
 
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zse

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Thanks for the replies! I was thinking about doing a separate hot water infusion for the rye but unfortunately I don't have big enough vessel to do this.
I have a pump which I normally use but I want to try to do a "minimalistic" (in terms of equipment) batch. But probably you're right, maybe step mashing without re-circulation is not the best idea :)

Rye is actually relatively low in beta glucans. It’s arabinoxylans (5-carbon sugar polymers) that make it viscous and gummy, and they’re more or less impervious to endogenous enzymes.

I’m a little skeptical of the need to ever do a beta-glucan rest, but I’m very skeptical of it helping much for rye.

I saw similar opinions. And it seems like there is no consensus among the community regarding this (but actually would be a really nice exBEERement). Most of the sources still claim that high-rye beer will benefit from beta-glucane rest. But I just tried to google non-beer related sources and indeed they say that rye has way less beta-glucan than oats or barley.

If you can, I would infuse with hot water rather than run the element below gelantinization temps. In my experience, the particles tend to attract and stick to heating elements at the lower temp ranges. I am assuming you have a heating element with your eBIAB!
Interesting. Didn't know that (but again never tried mashing on low temps) and somehow I always had expected that bag will protect from such kind of things. Do you thing it depends on the type of the heating element?

My take is that you need that beta glucan rest for a conventional mash tun since rye is sticky and has no hull of its own to form the filter bed. While the beta glucan rest may not be a big help, anything is worth trying.
With BIAB, if the mash is sticky, you just force the wort out by squeezing the bag of grains until it does. Yes, with that much rye it takes a good squeeze but it can be done with BIAB but not with a conventional mash tun. I'm too lazy to perform the calculations necessary to accurately predict the temperature that the water would have to be to reach the proper temp for the amylase enzymes to work being that one would need to know the weight of the bag of grain and how much heat it would have lost while hanging above the pot while said heating was occuring. It's a complicated set of equations and they change depending on the temperature of the air and whether the wind was blowing or not. KISS
That makes sense. Besides I'm going to add rice hulls to make it less sticky.

Once again thanks! I think I'm going along with KISS advice and just do "regular" single infusion mash and see what will happen. I never minded good mouthfeel in darker beers :)
 

Bassman2003

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The bag only keeps so much inside. Especially at the beginning of the mash. The water/wort is very cloudy which is the tiny particles. If you stay at lower temps those particles do not go away. When you fire up the element they cling to the heat. Once gel temps are reached the wort starts to clear. So it is only a matter of time at the lower temps before your element gets coated. Been there, done that with hefeweizen rests in the same zone.
 
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