Best yeast for dark fruit flavors in high gravity Belgium style beer ?

[brewman !]

I want to brew a high gravity (1.100+) Belgium style beer. I am looking for a dry yeast that will accentuate dark fruit flavors - raisin, plum, maybe a bit of pear or apple. Not looking for spice or bananas.

Suggestions ?

Safale BE 256 ?
Mangrove Jack M31 ? Or M47 ?
Lalbrew Abbaye Belgium Ale Yeast. "At lower temperatures, LalBrew® Abbaye produces darker fruit aromas and flavors of raisin, date, and fig:

 

[Franktalk]

Sub'd

 

[brewman !]

Here's something I don't understand. 2 guys brewed 2 different beers and used M31. Beer1 was "nice banana , clove, maybe some bubblegum" Beer2 was "Very complex. Malty with tons of plum, raisin and pear. Maybe a little clove". Doesn't even sound like the same yeast !

Beer1 OG 1.090, finished at 1.000. Mashed at 149 Ferment at 64F to 68F.

Beer2 OG 1.064, finished at 1.006. Fermented at 61F to 77F.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=28498.0

I want the 2nd flavor profile. My OG will be 1.100+.

When in the fermentation cycle are the flavors produced ? At the beginning or the end ?

If I finish fermenting at higher temps (75F+), will I get the 2nd flavor profile ?

 

[thehaze]

Higher fermentation temperatures usually result in more esters, whereas phenols would be accentuated when fermentation is done at a lower temperature. Is it well-established knowledge? I cannot say. My experience has shown that there is some truth to it. I can also find lots of threads where brewers tell about their own experience with fermentation temperature, and most seem to agree that more fruity esters are formed when fermenting warmer. Note that even when an ester is more proeminent, the phenols will still be present, sometimes being less proeminent than the esters. You cannot avoid one thing, by trying to accentuate the other one. So I would choose Abbaye and ferment colder.

The main yeast profile is determined and created in the first part of fermentation. Raising the temperature at the tail of fermentation will not affect the already created ester / phenol profile.

 

[brewman !]

Thanks for the reply.

So did the 61F starting temp on brew #2 give the fruity flavor ?

I can't find Abbaye locally to brew this weekend. I can get M31 though.

 

[brewman !]

Higher fermentation temperatures usually result in more esters, whereas phenols would be accentuated when fermentation is done at a lower temperature. Is it well-established knowledge? I cannot say.

Thank you ! I did not know this. Esters vs. Phenols in Beer | American Homebrewers Association

My experience has shown that there is some truth to it. I can also find lots of threads where brewers tell about their own experience with fermentation temperature, and most seem to agree that more fruity esters are formed when fermenting warmer. Note that even when an ester is more proeminent, the phenols will still be present, sometimes being less proeminent than the esters. You cannot avoid one thing, by trying to accentuate the other one. So I would choose Abbaye and ferment colder.

I'll use that yeast in my next brew.

The main yeast profile is determined and created in the first part of fermentation. Raising the temperature at the tail of fermentation will not affect the already created ester / phenol profile.

Good to know.

 

[trailrider]

Brewman I have a Belgian Dark strong in my line up of brews to try in the next few months and wondered how your high gravity Belgian finished? Did you get the flavors you were looking for? What yeast did you finally use and at what temp did you ferment? I've used W3787 in the past but haven't been able to get the dark fruit flavors. I don't know if its the temps I'm using or not. I usually start about 66* and ramp up 2 or 3 degrees every 24 hours till 75*.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I am curious of the results as well...though it looks like the OP has not been around for several months.

I have made several really nice Trappist style beers with WLP530 (Westmalle). The 3 batches I made with WY3787, which is supposed to be the same strain, just did not have as much character. It could have been a process or recipe issue on my side. My current WLP530 strategy is to pitch at 68F, and let it rise in my chamber up to the 76F range during active fermentation.

The one batch I made with WLP500 (Chimay) had a bunch of cherry flavor (which is sorta dark fruit). I recently brewed a Belgian Blond with Lallemand Abbaye (related to WLP500?) that turned out wonderful. I kept fermentation temps in the upper 60F range because I did not want too strong of yeast flavors given that it was a Blond. Of the couple I have tried so far, Lallemand Abbaye is my favorite dry Belgian yeast strain. I am curious what flavors it would push if fermented in the mid to upper 70F's.

I find that "dark fruit flavors" tend to come more from Special B and dark candi syrup than the yeast.

 

[trailrider]

The recipe I tried is a modified version of one I found on line. It came out ok but I thought it left a lot to be desired. I think it came off the candi syrup web site. The upcoming version will have twice the Special B (5.5%) and 2 lbs. of candy syrup one lbs. each of D45 and D180. Depending on the info I can gather I plan on switching yeast to the Lalbrew Abbaye or the Imperial B48 Triple double.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Imperial B48 Triple double

In theory, that yeast is the Westmalle strain which is the same as WLP530 and WY3787...but with twice as many cells in the pack!

 

[trailrider]

Didn't know that. Thanks

 

[Alan Reginato]

Hi! My second brew was with Lallemand Abbaye. A Munich SMaSH, target hops. OG 1.081. FG 1.016. IBU calc 55.
It fermented without temp control, so reached almost 27 C (80 F).
A banana bomb, for sure. But after 3 months conditioning, that dark fuit flavours rised. I remember tasting something like raisin.
So.... Maybe that's the secret, a little patience.

Hop it helps!


H

 

[trailrider]

When ever I can get some first hand info it usually helps, thanks.