Best ABV for max hoppiness

[CyberFox]

Hey everyone. What, in your opinion, is the ideal ABV for bringing out the most hoppiness in a beer? I'm after that saturated, "in your face" hop flavor, pretty much like drinking fruit juice. Why not just drink fruit juice, you ask? Because beer's better! While I'd like to keep the ABV as low as possible to achieve this, I've heard that it's difficult to get that kind of hop flavor out of low ABV beer, but why is that? Does the higher ABV add more hop flavor and at what point are there diminishing returns?


Thanks

 

[hotbeer]

Don't know. I'm about to find out. I've been doing a brewdog punk IPA clone for a few batches and >7.25% ABV. Really great hoppy taste due to the load of hops stuffed in it at flameout.

I've scaled back the fermentables to give a 4.25% ABV and have adjusted the hops to keep the same IBU/GU ratio.

Brew day is tomorrow or Saturday.

 

[CyberFox]

Nice! Sounds like a good experiment. I've always thought the ultimate beer would be one with low alcohol that tastes like a double IPA. Please let me know how it turns out.

 

[Bramling Cross]

I don't know anything about juicy or hazy IPAs, but I am a veteran of the 90's IBU wars. During that time, I realized that IBUs were used as a surrogate for folks that wanted sweet, boozy beers. Remember, hop utilization decreases with gravity and gravity, in the absence of an adjunct, obscures the impact of hops. I used to rejoice in making vicious little 1.048 beers that put the lie to the folks that claimed they enjoyed 140 IBU beers.

The juicy/hazy thing escapes me, I don't get it. Nevertheless, I've flirted with the idea of dusting off my old 1.045-.055 formula for pure hops expression and giving the latest trendy beer a shot.

There isn't much about beer that I'm really certain about, but I do know this: If you want your hops to really take center stage, lower your gravity.

 

[CyberFox]

I'm going to have to try making a 5% beer with a ton of hops. Maybe a half oz for bittering and the rest at flameout. A viscious little beer sounds right down my alley. As far as juicy/hazy IPAs go, I like them due to the types of hops they use and the amount they use. I also like the light grain bill that gets out of the way of the hops and the breadiness from flaked wheat, but the murkiness can sometimes get in the way when it comes to hop flavor. I've actually found that mostly clear, but unfiltered beer is the most hoppy and my favorite overall.

 

[youngdh]

Don't know. I'm about to find out. I've been doing a brewdog punk IPA clone for a few batches and >7.25% ABV. Really great hoppy taste due to the load of hops stuffed in it at flameout.

I've scaled back the fermentables to give a 4.25% ABV and have adjusted the hops to keep the same IBU/GU ratio.

Brew day is tomorrow or Saturday.

It's about maintaining the IBU/GU ratio. A few years ago I took my hazy DIPA that typically finished at 8-8.5% and session'ed it adjusting the target ABV to 5%. I adjusted my hops to maintain the same IBU/GU ratio. It came out very nice. It's was still hop forward without being overly hoppy/bitter. It's now my go to "house" IPA recipe I keep on tap. Another benefit of lowering the ABV is a smaller grain bill and hop bill (i.e., less expensive and less trub) . There are some in my homebrew club that just prefer boozy beers and didn't like my session'ed NEIPA. To each their own.

 

[Gorm]

4.5-5.6 is my sweet spot for super , in yer face, ipa/hop blast brew. I am a fane of bitter pales/ipas so may of these beers have 4-6 hop additions thruout the boil and dry hopping afterwards. These brews also have 1 lb or less of specialty malts. Also, mash grains at 149 F down to 1.046.
Not a hazy beer fan at all but this method works good for me.

have fun

 

[monkeymath]

I'm really not a hophead, but I must say I've unfortunately never had a beer below, say, 4.5% abv, that had a really full, saturated hop flavor. I think the alcohol helps carry and elevate the flavor. But I'm really interested in this and hope someone here will prove me wrong with their kick-ass 2.5% hop grenade

Side note:
I honestly cannot relate to what people mean when they talk about "balancing" bitterness and sweetness, IBU:GU ratios, etc.
To my taste buds, there's no balance to be had with these flavors: they simply clash. Sweetness brings out the bad, lingering aspects of bitterness. A clean, dry pilsner with a firm hop snap is immensely pleasing, but a sweet, boozy, caramelly beer cannot be salvaged by hops. They won't dry out the finish, it just lingers. And instead of yearning for the next sip, I'll reach for a glass of water to wash it down.

 

[Gorm]

Yeah, I don’t even think about balance. I add ingredients that I think will work well in the beer I brew.

what matters, unless your entering competitions, is if you are happy with the end result.

if yer happy,,,,,,,, you win

 

[CyberFox]

Yeah, balance is overrated!

 

[MMP126]

Start here. New England IPA - "Northeast" style IPA
Everything you could ever want to know about NEIPAs. I suggest just following a long, and taking notes. There is too much history to read. Just stay current with the thread to learn what works.

As far as ABV goes, Scott Janish (if you dont know who he is, and you like hoppy beers, you should look him up) did a little study on ABV and beer scores.
http://scottjanish.com/relationship-of-abv-to-beer-scores/This applies to NEIPAs as well. The higher the ABV, the higher the score.

As for me, I have found that NEIPA beers that are around 6.5%-7.5% seem to be where I like them. Lower seems to not have as much of a good mouthfeel, and lack depth and lose a little balance to me. Higher, seems to get overly sweet, and if not overly sweet, they can start to get hot with fusel alcohol.

 

[CyberFox]

Thanks for the links. Yeah, I've noticed that higher ABV leads to higher scores. Almost every commercial session IPA I've tried doesn't have anywhere near the hop flavor that I'd like. Nothing like some of the 7-9% beers I've tried. That's what made me wonder if higher ABV somehow leads to more hop flavor.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I don't think this is the best article on the topic (there were a lot of differences between the two example batches) but it contains some useful info:
https://hazyandhoppy.com/dry-hopping-rates-and-abv-in-neipas/

 

[CyberFox]

I just read that article the other day! Like you said, it has some useful info, but it would have been much more reliable if they kept everything the same and only adjusted the ABV.

 

[lumpher]

To get the mouthfeel, and still be able to feel my mouth (which I sometimes can't do with incredibly hoppy beers), I prefer the 7-7.2 range. Like many, I prefer a lower abv with balance; a good stout is my favorite. Sometimes I want a hoppy beer, though, so I make mine about 7. It's all personal preference, and I'm not saying this is optimal; I'm just saying my "In-my-face hops" recipe goes about 7% abv and about 85 IBU. Yes, some may consider that lame, but I can taste and feel the hops without eating grass.

 

[Callacave]

I‘ve been switching over to lower abv beers, but trying to retain flavor and mouthfeel with some success. Of course, alcohol brings flavor and mouthfeel to the table, but I think when it comes to hoppy ales a higher concentration of ethanol can help with getting those wonderful hop oils into your beers.

A while back I made a 2.5 gallon batch of 4.5% hoppy ale that I basically hopped up to double ipa levels. I was able to get the mouthfeel and saturated hop flavor and aroma that I was looking for. It‘s been a really fun challenge.

 

[Jag75]

My wheelhouse is 55-65 IBU for a 6% abv WCIPA

As for my NEIPA it's 7-8% abv with an IBU 32-40

 

[Miraculix]

Side note:
I honestly cannot relate to what people mean when they talk about "balancing" bitterness and sweetness, IBU:GU ratios, etc.
To my taste buds, there's no balance to be had with these flavors: they simply clash. Sweetness brings out the bad, lingering aspects of bitterness. A clean, dry pilsner with a firm hop snap is immensely pleasing, but a sweet, boozy, caramelly beer cannot be salvaged by hops. They won't dry out the finish, it just lingers. And instead of yearning for the next sip, I'll reach for a glass of water to wash it down.

Amen!

I thought I'm the only one. I also don't really see a sweet beer getting better by upping the ibus. To me, exactly what you described happens, the bitterness starts to linger in an unpleasant way and the sweetness still remains the same.

Regarding the low abv, I've had decently hoppy 3.5 % abv beers, I think it can be done.

I mean some people literally make hop water

...I wouldn't though.

 

[JAReeves]

You may have already started your latest brew, but I also like 4-5% ABV beers and love hops. I am including my take on the Centennial Blonde, as it has morphed over the ~ 5 years I have been making it. I try to take copious notes. The batch described in this recipe was a little more bitter than most people liked, so I would keep it at 50-60 IBU. The adjunct grains I use are just to add a slight depth of flavor to the beer, so there are no dead spots in between the sniff and the swallow; they can be dropped or subbed in easily.

 

[youngdh]

I'm really not a hophead, but I must say I've unfortunately never had a beer below, say, 4.5% abv, that had a really full, saturated hop flavor. I think the alcohol helps carry and elevate the flavor. But I'm really interested in this and hope someone here will prove me wrong with their kick-ass 2.5% hop grenade

Side note:
I honestly cannot relate to what people mean when they talk about "balancing" bitterness and sweetness, IBU:GU ratios, etc.
To my taste buds, there's no balance to be had with these flavors: they simply clash. Sweetness brings out the bad, lingering aspects of bitterness. A clean, dry pilsner with a firm hop snap is immensely pleasing, but a sweet, boozy, caramelly beer cannot be salvaged by hops. They won't dry out the finish, it just lingers. And instead of yearning for the next sip, I'll reach for a glass of water to wash it down.

It’s not about balance, I.e., being equal, it’s about maintaining the ratio as one plays with a new target ABV. This helps maintain the relative hop forward-ness to the OG (potential sweetness of the beer). It’s a starting point as one manipulates a recipe for a different target ABV. for example, to take a recipe for a DIPA and just reduce the OG for a lower ABV without reducing the target IBUs in relation you would end up with a less than desirable bitter bomb with hop burn.

 

[Alan Reginato]

Someone who wrote a book, or something like that, said that good hops are those you can add a lot without raise too much bitterness.

I guess is something related, alcohol is sweet, so if ABV is high you can add more hops.

When I started my homebrew adventures, I thought that too. Now I'm moving into lower ABV beers. And they are even better. I don't drink to get drunk. I like the taste of hops, malts, esters and (some) polyphenols.

Only thing you might need to check is BU:GU ratio or RBR. While a high gravity wort could only get 80 to 100 IBU and that's ok for a 8% beer. In a 4% it would be too bitter.

In this case flameout additions are great to impart flavour and less bitterness.

 

[monkeymath]

It’s not about balance, I.e., being equal, it’s about maintaining the ratio as one plays with a new target ABV. This helps maintain the relative hop forward-ness to the OG (potential sweetness of the beer). It’s a starting point as one manipulates a recipe for a different target ABV. for example, to take a recipe for a DIPA and just reduce the OG for a lower ABV without reducing the target IBUs in relation you would end up with a less than desirable bitter bomb with hop burn.

Well, to me, "undesirable bitter bomb with hop burn" is basically what a DIPA is, no matter the OG/ABV.

 

[Alan Reginato]

Well, to me, "undesirable bitter bomb with hop burn" is basically what a DIPA is, no matter the OG/ABV.

Seems I'm not the only one who likes to chew hop pellets...

 

[CyberFox]

Seems I'm not the only one who likes to chew hop pellets...

Sometimes that's the only way to get your hop fix!