Berlinerweisse water volume help...

[leighbooth]

I’m planning on doing my first kettle soured Berlinerweisse. I have a load of fruit and want to throw something in the secondary (maybe mulberries or pomegranate). I’ve been loving a local brewery’s weisse with fruit, here in San Diego - Wild Barrel’s California Vice. And I’m looking to do something like that.
Anyhoo My plan is to do a 50/50 Pilsner/wheat grainbill, mash for 60mins @ 150f, mash out 170f
Cool, adjust pH to 4.5, add grain (for lacto) and hold at 115f until the ph is 3.5 ish.
Then boil for just 15mins with a small amount of hops.Cool and Ferment with a neutral yeast, then rack over fruit for secondary.

The place where I’m stuck is volume of mash and sparge water. So I have an equation that I usually use to get my mash/sparge volume. But if I use this I’m not gonna be getting much boil off, if I’m only boiling for 15mins
Am I just overthinking this or should, as my intuition is telling me - use less water and if so how do I calculate how much??

 

[RPh_Guy]

Hey friend,
I love sour beers! Glad you've taken an interest!

How do you normally calculate your water requirement if you don't know your boil-off rate?

It really helps to know your equipment's boil-off rate, grain absorption, and dead space (if any) so you can use the correct water volume for varying boil times and grain amounts... For brews exactly like this one!

Otherwise you can only guess. Are you making 5 gal? Maybe use a gallon less. Stab in the dark.

BTW most brewers, including myself, prefer a lab culture of Lacto for the sake of ease and consistency when souring wort.
Your process sounds fine though if you want to try it. Looks like you did some research.

 

[leighbooth]

Thanks for the reply. I use the Grainfather system for brewing (and think it should be good to control the temp for kettle souring). The equation I use for brewing usually serves me well, but I've never done such a short boil before..
MASH = (GWx0.34) + 0.9
SPARGE = (7.4-MASH) + (GWx0.1)

I’ll be brewing a 6.08G batch in the grainfather - I'm thinking I'll just sparge with a bit less

Can you recommend a good Lacto culture? My LHBS stocks White Labs - WLP672 Lacto Brevis says its suitable for kettle souring, however is this going to work at 115'f, as the info from white labs say the temp range is 70-95'f. So if I use this, maybe I should I drop the souring holding temperature to 95'f instead of the planned 115'f? I have also heard of people using yogurt for souring?

Thanks for your help, it's much appreciated!
Leigh

 

[RPh_Guy]

Have you ever measured the pre-boil volume and then post-boil volume? That'll give your boil-off rate.

I would not use that white labs strain. Looks like it's not good for kettle souring and white labs has notoriously bad bacterial products, from what I've heard.

Lactobacillus plantarum is most commonly used because it sours quickly anywhere from 70-100°F.
You can buy probiotic products with it: Swanson's brand pills, RenewLife pills (what I use), Goodbelly liquid.
If you want a yeast lab culture, Omega, TYB, and ECY all have solid products.

Fat-free yogurt can be used; I'd keep it the 90-110°F for souring.
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Alternative_Bacteria_Sources

 

[leighbooth]

Great info! Thank you so much, I have some probiotics in the fridge - so I’ll give that a shot.
Thanks again
Cheers
Leigh