Belgian Wit.... suggestions please.

[Owly055]

I'm planning a Belgian Wit ...... sort of.... This weekend.

My proposed grain bill is 50% malted wheat, and the remainder split between 2 row, and 7 grain cereal (large percentage various types of wheat rolled)

Hallertau and/or Willamette in the boil, possibly some Northern Brewer FWH. IBUs will be around 30

Whirlpool with a fruity hop..... Perhaps Amarillo, Calliente, or Ahtanum

Ferment with Belle Saison in the 60-70F range. I want a hint of the saison character, but not the intensity I got from my recent Imperial Saison where I simply turned the yeast loose at ambient temps that went as high as 90..... I like the result, but that's not what I'm looking for here. I have only a few yeasts on hand....... the ubiquitous -05, Munton's Gold, Belle Saison, 34/70 lager yeast, Wy 5151 (brett blend), and Wy 1214 Abbaye.

The goal is a fruity Wit beer with coriander and sweet orange peel, a bit more hop forward than the usual Wit, and with that distinctive Belgian yeast character, but not overwhelming. An interesting and complex distinctly Belgian Wit that is very pale.


H.W.

 

[Tippsy-Turvy]

I like my wits with residual sweetness so i mash them high. Also in my last batch, I added fennel seeds which gave a very subtle liquoricey/mintiness that complemented the coriander and orange peel, i believe.

 

[drainbamage]

I could see late addition fruity hops interacting well with the orange peel and spice.

You might also consider adding some oats to the mash for body, unless you're going for a lighter character.

 

[Rhaop]

Cascade at 10min gave a nice compliment to the orange peel in the last wit i made

 

[Owly055]

I like my wits with residual sweetness so i mash them high. Also in my last batch, I added fennel seeds which gave a very subtle liquoricey/mintiness that complemented the coriander and orange peel, i believe.

I like the fennel idea.......but I have neither Fennel or Star Anise which I often have on hand, so unless I hit town between now and then, that will have to wait for the next one. Both spices have a similar licorice flavor, but fennel is a more unique spicy and interesting variant........ I hadn't thought until you mentioned it.

I don't know what you consider mashing high...... I've mashed at many temperatures, sometimes as high as 165. I find the result is more a matter of body than of sweetness. Belle Saison of course is not the yeast if one wants residual sweetness.

The alternative to trying achieve an actual increase in unfermentable sugars, none of which are very sweet, would be to cut the IBUs down, perhaps as low as 10, doing all late addition and whirlpool. For example if I added 1 ounce each of Hallertau and Northern Brewer at 4 minutes in my 3 gallon brew, the IBUs would be a mere 1.58. Half an ounce of Amarillo and half an ounce of some other fruit hop in a 160F whirlpool for 15 min would make the fruit flavors pop. The result would be intense hop flavor without bitterness, and the lack of bitterness would increase the perceived sweetness.

Thanks for the ideas!!

..................... H.W.

 

[Owly055]

Cascade at 15 gave a nice compliment to the orange peel in the last wit i made

Perhaps I should crack the Cascade and try it............

I tend to add flavor and aroma hops at 5 or less and use quantity.........Better yet whirlpool, but some hops need the boil it seems. Not all whirlpool well.

Was Cascade 15 your only hop addition? How much and what was your batch size?


H.W.

 

[Tippsy-Turvy]

I think anise seed is more equivalent to fennel. Star Anise will give more clove character than liquorice.

IBU's are subjective, i know, but my wit IBUs are in the 13-15 range.

 

[Owly055]

I could see late addition fruity hops interacting well with the orange peel and spice.

You might also consider adding some oats to the mash for body, unless you're going for a lighter character.

The all grain cereal contains 6 different grains and flax seeds...... which I could do without as I doubt they contribute anything at all in the mash. 3 kinds of wheat, oats, barley, and rye......... all rolled for a relatively short cooking time. I think the unmalted grains in this should contribute to body. I bought an 8 pound bucket of it and have brewed with it before, and while the results are not "stellar", it's not a bad adjunct.


H.W.

 

[z-bob]

I think it's going to be too bitter at 30. Fifteen to 20 would be about right, but maybe that's just me. I like bitter beers when they are supposed to be bitter, but wit is kind of light and I think will be out of balance.

 

[Cider123]

Your grain bill looks fine and the ferment temps should keep the funk to a minimum which works better for a wit in the Belgian arena. If you like hoppy beers than have the IBU's higher. Wits generally have the yeast and coriander flavors that dominate, with hops to offer some contrasting bitterness.

Hoegaarden states that the citrus flavor comes more from the coriander used than the bitter orange peel (zest) itself. You need to use the brewer's variety of coriander from your LHBS. The McCormick's stuff will instill a vegetal, yuck flavor. The two varieties were produced in different countries and have different flavors. 4g cracked in a 5 gal batch is more than enough for me, some like more.

Oh, and +1 on some oats.

 

[Owly055]

Your grain bill looks fine and the ferment temps should keep the funk to a minimum which works better for a wit in the Belgian arena. If you like hoppy beers than have the IBU's higher. Wits generally have the yeast and coriander flavors that dominate, with hops to offer some contrasting bitterness.

Hoegaarden states that the citrus flavor comes more from the coriander used than the bitter orange peel (zest) itself. You need to use the brewer's variety of coriander from your LHBS. The McCormick's stuff will instill a vegetal, yuck flavor. The two varieties were produced in different countries and have different flavors. 4g cracked in a 5 gal batch is more than enough for me, some like more.

Oh, and +1 on some oats.

Thanks for the 4G number.....What do you crack with (thinking hand crank coffee grinder), and when do you recommend adding? My thinking is at the end of boil, or whirlpool.


H.W.

 

[Rhaop]

Perhaps I should crack the Cascade and try it............



I tend to add flavor and aroma hops at 5 or less and use quantity.........Better yet whirlpool, but some hops need the boil it seems. Not all whirlpool well.



Was Cascade 15 your only hop addition? How much and what was your batch size?





H.W.

Ok what i did on my last batch of wit and i say last batch because i am constantly changing the recipe, if i figure out how to post it from beer smith i will but anyways

I spilt up an oz of hallertauer .5 at 60 and .5 at 20, i love hallertauer so i might even bump those additions up, i add 1oz of sweet orange peel, .5oz of crushed coriander from the lhbs, and .5oz of cascade at 10min i have the orange peel in a small grain bag i leave that in the kettle during whirlpool and chilling so it doesn't clogged my pump

Edit: i aim for 5.5gal batches to make up for the biab trub

 

[Owly055]

Ok what i did on my last batch of wit and i say last batch because i am constantly changing the recipe, if i figure out how to post it from beer smith i will but anyways

I spilt up an oz of hallertauer .5 at 60 and .5 at 20, i love hallertauer so i might even bump those additions up, i add 1oz of sweet orange peel, .5oz of crushed coriander from the lhbs, and .5oz of cascade at 10min i have the orange peel in a small grain bag i leave that in the kettle during whirlpool and chilling so it doesn't clogged my pump

Edit: i aim for 5.5gal batches to make up for the biab trub

I've finalized things........ the mash is running as I write. I didn't feel like cracking a fresh 1/2 pound of Cascade.

Amarillo Belgian Wit

3 gallon brew:

OG 1.054 projected
ABV 5.7% projected
IBU 12.65
SRM 3.67

4 pounds malted wheat, one pound 2 row, 1 pound multi grain rolled cereal

1 ounce Hallertau @ 15
.25 ounce crushed coriander & .5 ounce sweet orange peel @ 10 min
.5 ounce Amarillo @ whirlpool / 160 / 15 min

fermented with Lallemand Belle Saison @ 65-70F


H.W.

 

[Rhaop]

Looks solid, the amarillo added after chilling to 160 and holding for 15min? If so i will need to try that!

 

[Owly055]

Looks solid, the amarillo added after chilling to 160 and holding for 15min? If so i will need to try that!

That's right....... I don't believe I've whirlpooled Amarillo before....... I'll keep you posted on results in about 3-4 weeks.


H.W.

 

[Rhaop]

I've made two single hopped amarillo pale ales its one of my favorite hops