Belgian Tripel

[oylerck]

Went from 1.084 to 1.03 in 24 hours. Almost needed a blowoff tube in a 7 gallon fermonster, but we survived. Krausen is now only an inch thick.

Tastes really good at the moment, albeit a little sweet. Is it normal for Belgians to consume that quickly??

 

[oylerck]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1496016407.112479.jpg I did overshoot og by just a little. And only had 5 gallons at the end of the boil, which was shorter than expected. I think my mash tun loss is a little larger than documented.

 

[Big Monk]

Went from 1.084 to 1.03 in 24 hours. Almost needed a blowoff tube in a 7 gallon fermonster, but we survived. Krausen is now only an inch thick.

Tastes really good at the moment, albeit a little sweet. Is it normal for Belgians to consume that quickly??

Yes. The liquid strains in particular will get to 50-60% AA pretty quickly.

 

[oylerck]

1.016

 

[z-bob]

I like T-58, but it's an interesting choice for a tripel. I've had trouble with poor attenuation with it in a big beer, but that beer had problems anyway and might not have been the yeast's fault. (ultimately it tasted really good, but it took a year) Curious how yours turns out.

Very rapid fermentation to about 50% is normal. The last 20% can take forever. Or not.

 

[oylerck]

I like T-58, but it's an interesting choice for a tripel. I've had trouble with poor attenuation with it in a big beer, but that beer had problems anyway and might not have been the yeast's fault. (ultimately it tasted really good, but it took a year) Curious how yours turns out.

Very rapid fermentation to about 50% is normal. The last 20% can take forever. Or not.

I've seen several people try it and I don't have a way to create a starter yet. Worth a shot. Anyway it tastes pretty good right now but it maybe a little hot in the fusel alcohol department. Lots of banana, not that it is bad. Can't decide if it's that or pepper. After 3 months it should calm down though. I do like it, but not quite dry enough.

However I haven't given it enough time yet, not even 48 hours in.

 

[Big Monk]

I've seen several people try it and I don't have a way to create a starter yet. Worth a shot. Anyway it tastes pretty good right now but it maybe a little hot in the fusel alcohol department. Lots of banana, not that it is bad. Can't decide if it's that or pepper. After 3 months it should calm down though. I do like it, but not quite dry enough.

However I haven't given it enough time yet, not even 48 hours in.

What temperature do you pitch at? What temperature has it been fermenting at?

 

[oylerck]

What temperature do you pitch at? What temperature has it been fermenting at?

66. I let it rise to 72 over 36 hours.

 

[Big Monk]

66. I let it rise to 72 over 36 hours.

That may explain some of the fusel character.

Something I'm pursuing recently is to pitch cold and let it free rise. I start at 64 °F and put the fermenter in a tub of water. The water bath provides a thermal mass to prevent the beer from free rising too fast. The beer typically stays at 64-65 °F for the first 24-36 hours and then rises to a temperature that is a function of the mass of fermenting beer and the ambient temperature. My basement is typically 66 °F so the water bath and ambient temperature keep the beer from exceeding 74 °F towards the peak.

I use a thermowell in my bucket lid as well, so I am certain of the ACTUAL temperature of the fermenting beer.

Don't be afraid to "let the beer go" but try and prevent uncontrolled or rapid temperature spikes in the beginning of fermentation.

 

[oylerck]

That may explain some of the fusel character.

Something I'm pursuing recently is to pitch cold and let it free rise. I start at 64 °F and put the fermenter in a tub of water. The water bath provides a thermal mass to prevent the beer from free rising too fast. The beer typically stays at 64-65 °F for the first 24-36 hours and then rises to a temperature that is a function of the mass of fermenting beer and the ambient temperature. My basement is typically 66 °F so the water bath and ambient temperature keep the beer from exceeding 74 °F towards the peak.

I use a thermowell in my bucket lid as well, so I am certain of the ACTUAL temperature of the fermenting beer.

Don't be afraid to "let the beer go" but try and prevent uncontrolled or rapid temperature spikes in the beginning of fermentation.

It's not bad, just a warm alcoholic flavor towards the end of the taster. I was just hoping for more pepper and less banana. Still very drinkable, I don't think it's doing a bad job at all.

 

[oylerck]

So, if I were to add dark candi sugar now could I essentially call it a quad? Or does that need more malt as well?

 

[oylerck]

So, if I were to add dark candi sugar now could I essentially call it a quad? Or does that need more malt as well?

Beuler?

 

[Big Monk]

Beuler?

Well a Dark Strong ale is dark (color) and strong (gravity). So if adding dark syrup fits that criteria then call it whatever you want.

 

[oylerck]

Less banana now. Peppery now and but the aroma is fairly Belgian.

1.01 and a week in. What's my next step? My FG should be 1.004 according to BeerSmith. What point should I cold crash and transfer to secondary or should I cold crash? At what point do I bottle

 

[troglodytes]

You've got a lot of simple sugar in there. My guess is you may have underestimated your boiloff rate resulting in a higher gravity lower volume of beer. However, because that 2.5# of beet sugar is nearly 100% fermentable, you should still get down to about 1.005-1.006 FG if you mashed low. I would let it do two things, sit in the primary until the gravity doesn't change for a week. Then let it sit in a dark cool place for a month; I think there are advantages to letting it sit on the yeast for a little and a month or two is certainly not too long. Bottle/carb (probably 4-6 weeks with that high of gravity) at room temp, then take it back to that cool dark place and forget about it for 3 to 4 months. This beer will need to time for the yeast to mellow, for the flavors to meld and for the warm alcohol flavor to dissipate. With the sugar content you have it, it could be green for a couple months.

For reference, I did a Westy 12 clone the old school way with only Bel Pilsner and Bel Pale malt with 2.5# of dark syrup. I caramelized down a gallon of the 1st runnings, reducing it down to a pint (creating some unfermentables) and it went from 1.095 down to FG of 1.012 in only two weeks. I aged a month in the basement (60F), and it then took 6 weeks for it to carb up after bottling at 68F. It's now down in long term storage back in the basement at 60F. I just cracked one to see how its progressing now that its 5 months old and its just now starting to not taste thin and the plum/stone fruit flavors are just barely peaking through the yeast. I'm thinking it will be hitting its stride some time next Jan/Feb.

In my opinion don't rush this one and I'm sure you'll get a great result.

 

[HopGobbler]

Brewed a small batch Belgian Tripel this weekend, my second time. It's my gf's favorite brew to date

 

[oylerck]

You've got a lot of simple sugar in there. My guess is you may have underestimated your boiloff rate resulting in a higher gravity lower volume of beer. However, because that 2.5# of beet sugar is nearly 100% fermentable, you should still get down to about 1.005-1.006 FG if you mashed low. I would let it do two things, sit in the primary until the gravity doesn't change for a week. Then let it sit in a dark cool place for a month; I think there are advantages to letting it sit on the yeast for a little and a month or two is certainly not too long. Bottle/carb (probably 4-6 weeks with that high of gravity) at room temp, then take it back to that cool dark place and forget about it for 3 to 4 months. This beer will need to time for the yeast to mellow, for the flavors to meld and for the warm alcohol flavor to dissipate. With the sugar content you have it, it could be green for a couple months.

For reference, I did a Westy 12 clone the old school way with only Bel Pilsner and Bel Pale malt with 2.5# of dark syrup. I caramelized down a gallon of the 1st runnings, reducing it down to a pint (creating some unfermentables) and it went from 1.095 down to FG of 1.012 in only two weeks. I aged a month in the basement (60F), and it then took 6 weeks for it to carb up after bottling at 68F. It's now down in long term storage back in the basement at 60F. I just cracked one to see how its progressing now that its 5 months old and its just now starting to not taste thin and the plum/stone fruit flavors are just barely peaking through the yeast. I'm thinking it will be hitting its stride some time next Jan/Feb.

In my opinion don't rush this one and I'm sure you'll get a great result.

Thanks for the answer. How does the recipe look? My wife named it because she thinks it's a waste of time... get it?

I want to do a quad for my next big beer, but I didn't have citric acid to make dark candi sugar or dark malts to use for this one.

 

[Big Monk]

Thanks for the answer. How does the recipe look? My wife named it because she thinks it's a waste of time... get it?

I want to do a quad for my next big beer, but I didn't have citric acid to make dark candi sugar or dark malts to use for this one.

I'd say you are done. 1.084 to 1.010 is almost 89% attenuation.

Did you run a Fast Ferment Test (FFT) to see what your target final gravity was?

 

[oylerck]

I'd say you are done. 1.084 to 1.010 is almost 89% attenuation.

Did you run a Fast Ferment Test (FFT) to see what your target final gravity was?

I'm not sure what an Fft is.. either way BeerSmith said 1.004. Why would this be different? And, I mashed for 2.5 hours (because I got stuck at Walmart-mart)

 

[10_degrees_play-doh]

Underpitched yeast could account for the fusels. I don't know what sort of temp monitoring you have, but it's also possible that with all the activity in the fermenter that the core temp rose higher than you read, kicking the yeast into full "quick 'n' dirty" mode. I'd say 2 or more packets for the next round, or otherwise a hefty starter (pitching calcs such as mrmalty can help with the math). As for syrup for the quad, you should check out the invert sugar / molasses method. Any sort of acid will do for the inversion. Ascorbic acid will probably be available at your LHBS, possibly at your local drug store, and definitely online. Tartaric or lactic acids are also popular for inversion. A bit of corn syrup (fructose) helps prevent crystallization before inversion is complete. I've got complete instructions in a book, but don't have the gumption to look that up and record it here. I'm sure it's online, though. Just beware the recipes that overcook the sugar leading to carmelization rather than Maillard reactions. OR- skip the inversion step and let the yeast do that, and just add a touch of molasses for that character. Raw sugar can be good for adding that touch of complexity, too.

 

[Big Monk]

I'm not sure what an Fft is.. either way BeerSmith said 1.004. Why would this be different? And, I mashed for 2.5 hours (because I got stuck at Walmart-mart)

The FFT is a fast ferment test. I perform one on every batch. I wait for fermentation to kick in and pull off a sample of the fermenting beer and place it in a mason jar. I swirl it for a few days and read the final gravity of the sample. That's the ACTUAL final gravity of your fermenting beer.

I don't use BeerSmith but all brewing softwares make estimates of final gravity. The estimate BeerSmith gave you based on your numbers is highly unlikely, even with high temps and large amounts of sugar:

1.077 S.G. = 18.7 °P
1.004 S.G. = 1 °P

Apparent Attenuation = (OG - FG)/OG * 100
(Gravity in °P)

So the Apparent Attenuation for your BeerSmith estimate based on your target gravity would be ~95%. This seems highly unlikely. But using your ACTUAL OG and your current gravity:

1.084 S.G. = 20.2 °P
1.010 S.G. = 2.6 °P

gives a more reasonable 87% attenuation, especially given the fact that T-58's listed AA% is ~70%.

 

[oylerck]

My hydrometer is actually .002 off, so it's 1.008. I tested a week ago. So that's something.

So if I wait until Saturday and transfer to a keg and let sit for a month or two before Bottling I should be good?

 

[oylerck]

Underpitched yeast could account for the fusels. I don't know what sort of temp monitoring you have, but it's also possible that with all the activity in the fermenter that the core temp rose higher than you read, kicking the yeast into full "quick 'n' dirty" mode. I'd say 2 or more packets for the next round, or otherwise a hefty starter (pitching calcs such as mrmalty can help with the math). As for syrup for the quad, you should check out the invert sugar / molasses method. Any sort of acid will do for the inversion. Ascorbic acid will probably be available at your LHBS, possibly at your local drug store, and definitely online. Tartaric or lactic acids are also popular for inversion. A bit of corn syrup (fructose) helps prevent crystallization before inversion is complete. I've got complete instructions in a book, but don't have the gumption to look that up and record it here. I'm sure it's online, though. Just beware the recipes that overcook the sugar leading to carmelization rather than Maillard reactions. OR- skip the inversion step and let the yeast do that, and just add a touch of molasses for that character. Raw sugar can be good for adding that touch of complexity, too.

The Fusel flavor seems to have gone away. I feel like with age this will be an awesome tripel. However I don't have much in rural Iowa to judge against. I think I can get velvet rooster but that's about it.

 

[Big Monk]

My hydrometer is actually .002 off, so it's 1.008. I tested a week ago. So that's something.

So if I wait until Saturday and transfer to a keg and let sit for a month or two before Bottling I should be good?

I'm not a proponent of putting beers in secondary and aging long term. My Trappist style beers typically have lower gravity and I let Attenuation drive up the ABV. They aren't usually that green out of the fermenter and I don't wait to bottle.

 

[troglodytes]

I agree with Scotty, I wouldn't transfer either. I let my quad sit on the yeast for a month to "age" due to be completely slammed with too many other things to do. But I have heard the argument that with today's yeasts autolysis is not an issue and, with Belgians, sitting on that yeast for a while instead of a secondary is going to help the complex flavors come through.

I like your recipe, but then again I love dry, yeast driven beers. Like I said, my quad was only 3 ingredients and it is the most complex flavored beer I've made thus far. I think the biscuit malt you used will probably give it enough of a backbone to stand up to all that simple sugar you added, but again, this will require some aging to get there.

A note for the future if you're going to make a quad I highly recommend the CSI recipe here:

CSIs Westy Clone

And pay close attention to the process detail provided Bottoms Up as the 21st reply. It is the most indepth process coverage in perhaps this entire site. From timing to temp to bottling it resulted in a perfect beer. I would also recommend you use CSIs own candi sugar for this one. I usually always make my own invert/candi sugar for my belgians and saisons but I screwed up royally making the double boiled dark one for the quad; and, it was the best mistake I've made as it forced me to go buy the D-180 syrup (which is specifically designed to mimic the flavors of Westvleteren, and boy does it ever). It is far superior to anything I could make myself as far as complexity and flavor that makes it all the way through fermentation into the final product.

 

[Big Monk]

There are three major areas of mention for Trappist type beers:

1.) Attenuation (wort composition is a major player)

2.) Sugar (differing opinions on type but sugar is essential for lighter body and attenuation)

3.) Fermentation Temperature Profile (proper ramping for different yeasts)

Get those down and you can use all types of different malts, sugars, etc.

 

[oylerck]

We are at 1.005!

Cancel that. The beers were at different fg for some reason. 1.008 still on the fermenter. But this sample is better

 

[oylerck]

Why the color difference? The hydrometer sample has been there a few days and drawn from the bottom of the fermenter. Oxidation is my only guess...View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1496966315.024607.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1496966333.275050.jpg

 

[Big Monk]

Why the color difference? The hydrometer sample has been there a few days and drawn from the bottom of the fermenter. Oxidation is my only guess...View attachment 403612View attachment 403613

It would be the opposite. Beer wouldn't lighten up due to oxidation.

 

[tjosborne]

It looks darker due to the mass of the beer.