Belgian Pale Ale - yeast substitute

[redone17]

I was hoping to brew a Belgian Pale Ale for a nice session beer this weekend and it turns out the suggested yeast strains are out of season...go figure.

What is a good alternative/substitute for White Labs WLP515 (Antwerp Ale) or Wyeast 3655 Belgian Schelde?

Can I get away with Safbrew T-58 Dry Yeast? Or is there a better dry yeast option out there? I have never used dry yeast before. I tend to make starters with a single pack/vial.

I'd like to get that similar fermentation characteristics.

Thanks for your help in advance.
CP

 

[GuldTuborg]

I have a split BPA batch going with 1388 and 1214 right now. I can't comment on how they taste right now, of course, but I've used 1388 for similar beers before with great results. I like 1388 as it's lightly fruity, complex, and fairly low on the phenols in beers like this. If you want something with a more phenolic flavor, look to 3522; it's well balanced in this regard.

Really, though, most Trappist and Abbey style yeasts will work well in this kind of brew. Just pick the one that will work best with your setup and temps, or if you have good control, whichever you prefer by flavors. I haven't used WLP515, but it's can't be too far off from some of these others. It's supposed to be pretty clean, no? Maybe 1762 at the middle or lower end of its range would be a good sub. It's a great yeast, and more subtle than most others in its flavor contribution.

 

[redone17]

Thanks for the quick response!

I think that 3522 will work out just great and my local shop is getting an order in today or tomorrow.

I'll report back on how it turns out!

It will be my first batch at our new home. Outdoor propane brewing setup w/ a relatively cool basement for fermentation. I haven't gotten the water tested beyond the normal health regulations - but it's delicious mountain well water in the Hudson Valley, NY (filtered and UV treated).

Cheers.


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[GuldTuborg]

Sounds good. I hope the new brew turns out well.

 

[nealizm]

I'm currently drinking a Belgian pale with danstar belle saison yeast. Hops were Chinook bitering/flavoring,cascade/centennial aroma, and citra/cascade/centennial dryhoped. I enjoy it.

 

[beowulf]

My go-to yeast for Belgian Blonds is Wyeast 1214. I'm not sure if there's much of a difference in recipe composition between a pale ale and a blond, but I'm a huge fan of this yeast for a range of Belgians from Blond to Quad. I have never used the yeasts you indicated were out of stock, but I can vouch for the 1214 as a good choice.

 

[peterj]

I'm currently drinking a Belgian pale with danstar belle saison yeast. Hops were Chinook bitering/flavoring,cascade/centennial aroma, and citra/cascade/centennial dryhoped. I enjoy it.

Hmm, sounds like you're drinking a saison. Also sounds delicious!

 

[GuldTuborg]

I'm not sure if there's much of a difference in recipe composition between a pale ale and a blond

Gravity is the main difference, I believe. Most other aspects are roughly the same.

 

[redone17]

I gotta try that 1214.

Turns out FedEx didn't make it to my shop in time so I was stuck trying out Mangrove Jack's M27. I have never used a dry yeast before, but I re-hydrated and it seemed super healthy and started attenuating within less than 24 hours.



The package suggests 78-90*F. I don't want an over the top ester explosion. My original plan was a way lower fermentation temp and I'm at around 66-68*F for the last 48 hrs. If it's doing it's thing, I should just leave it? Or do you think the yeast will get bored and fall out?


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[redone17]

I am reading a lot of accounts adding sugars and primary for 1 week, secondary for 2 weeks at lower temps...

I was really hoping to get this down to 1.01-1.02 within a week...started at 1.066.

I can certainly put it in secondary if it will make for a better beer - but I feel that's necessary for higher gravity ales.

oh, and I thought I would mention - I plan to keg it.

 

[redone17]

wow, Adam at Mangrove responded within minutes.

I’d let it rise to about 75f. It’s quite common in old farmhouses to brew in the fall when it’s cool but in unjacketed fermenters where the yeast metabolism will take the temp up on its own.

A hallmark of these beers is a very fizzy, dry finish. Even if it’s initially sweet and dark, it’s also refreshing. I believe you need to let it get to 75 to get that full attenuation but you don’t need to go beyond that.

That’s also a temperature where your esters should be fairly restrained. It will probably continue to eat away quite slowly after your initial bang for a good 2-3 weeks. Let it go. It’s worth the wait.

 

[redone17]

I asked if I should move it to secondary at one point...

Just leave it in the same fermenter. You won't get autolysis and the yeast in suspension will clean it up.

Once it hits FG, let it sit a week and I'd cold crash it if you have the fridge space. One more week.

I'll report back on progress.

 

[GuldTuborg]

That's a great response from the manufacturer. I hope it turns out well.

 

[redone17]

so far so good. brought it up from the basement where it was too cool for this yeast and it's been at a steady 76*F since...clearing up nicely.

 

[redone17]

I realize I never followed up!

The brew came out really nice. A bit sweeter than I planned - but I attribute that to a few factors:

First time brewing on my new stand outdoors with propane and I should have accounted for more boil-off. I only got around 4-4.5 gallons in the end. I am planning on brewing the same beer this weekend with different yeast and will increase my pre-boil volume.

I finally got a Johnson Temp Controller and plan to wrap my carboy with a heat mat and provide a temp increase up to 82-84 (depending on yeast) after initial few days. This should dry it out a bit.

Maybe a lower temp mash for a longer amount of time will help achieve this drier finishing/more attenuation too.

I also liked the flavor a lot more before going into the sanke keg - I attribute that to slight oxidation. I have since got some corny kegs and hope to avoid any contact with the outside forces.

Overall I am happy with the Mangrove dry yeast and I would use it again. It performed well.

 

[dbrese]

I'm currently using Wyeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes to ferment a Belgian pale ale with Mosaic hops and citrus zest. At 75F the esters and phenolics are very complimentary to the hops and citrus and the mouthfeel is clean but still typical of Belgian yeast. It's an ideal yeast for the style as it originated at the A'Chouffe Brewery which specializes in pale ales.

 

[Wolfbrau]

I believe Mangrove Jack's is currently supplying a low viability count compared to what we're used to in dry yeast. That's probably the reason for the low attenuation. Since I really like MJ's yeast, I have taken to making starters with them, including full aeration and WYeast nutrient, to increase attenuation.

This is the reverse of what we usually experience. I think the MJ yeasts are probably really awesome closer to their place of origin, but they have a long and difficult travel to most of us, resulting in lower viability. They're also 10g packs vs. 11.5g packs, so there's a reduction in cell count right away.

 

[redone17]

Wolfbrau - that's interesting to know. I would certainly try them out again.

I tried to make a starter with the Wyeast 3522 and it erupted...I guess I need a larger flask for 2L starters...tons of wasted creamy yeast. I'm thinking I need to pick up a packet ASAP (finished brewing around 1AM last night/this morning)...I tried to keep it under control and turned the stirplate on every once in a while instead of normally running it continuously. I feel all that ideal top fermenting goodness was lost.

 

[dbrese]

I used to have that problem all the time with the top cropping yeasts like Wyeast 3068, etc. I use antifoam these days and it works well. There is some debate about the composition of that stuff, but the manufacturers have gone through the process of testing the safety issues in order to get approval for its sale.

 

[redone17]

oh wow! I didn't realize that worked for fermentation/attenuation...I just thought it was used to control the foaming during the boil. I have to look into that.

Thanks for the tip.

 

[redone17]

yeah - the Ardennes is a workhorse. It erupted out of a 6G carboy too! I had to switch over to a blow off tube. Luckily it didn't make too much of a mess.

I had it at 69-70 for 3 days and now I am ramping it up a degree a day. Wyeast suggests up to 76*F - think I can go higher? Would I want to? I wish I started a little lower (66 would have been nice). But I just got the hang of this Johnson controller and didn't set my fridge up with it yet. I have a seed mat warming it up at the moment. These things will come in handy during the colder months ahead...but it's 90*F tomorrow. I am ready for Fall.

I wish I split this batch up and threw in some sugar in one to see how dry I can get it. I guess I could transfer some. Also interested in what a little dry hopping would do. I plan on repeating this recipe a few times and experimenting a bunch until I find the exact beer I am imagining.

This fermentation smells SO good. I can't wait to see what comes of it.