Belgian Candi syrup

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archthered

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I have a fantastic recipe that uses D-90 Belgian candi syrup. Right now I can't find any and need a substitute. I have considered making my own but after doing a little research on that I get the impression it will be a bit more complicated to get the exact same results than it appears at first and that many people who think that's what they are making are actually making English style invert sugar, which is good but will give a different character than what I normally get. I was considering getting dark Belgian Candi sugar, the hard rock sugar, but I'm concerned it won't give me the same character. What are your experiences with the hard rock sugar and how does it compare to the syrup?
 
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archthered

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Northern Brewer- out of stock, Morebeer- out of stock, Adventures in homebrew- out of stock, Austin- out of stock, Midwest supplies- out of stock. I've looked a lot. I also may get the D-180 and just use less or accept that it will be different this year, I really like what the candi syrup does.
 

IslandLizard

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I have considered making my own but after doing a little research on that I get the impression it will be a bit more complicated to get the exact same results than it appears at first
It may take a few tries to get it right, but it isn't that difficult. It's time consuming, it needs to "simmer" at the right temp for about an hour. To do so you need to watch it and add a teaspoon of water regularly to keep the temp from rising too high due to evaporation.
I think the product I make now is better than D-90, but it took at least 3 times to get it close enough. Been perfecting it since.
I have been able to get as high as a good "D-120/140," but D-180 is very difficult.


 

odie

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you can't use 1/2 of D-180 to make D-90. Or anything else like that.

How candied syrup works is as it's heated/cooked the favor profiles change. D-45, D-90, D-180 are all different flavors of candi syrup. Not different strengths.

How different the flavors are will be subjective to your individual tongue.
 

kevin58

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I've brewed a lot of Belgian ales, especially tripels and quads, and I've had a lot of luck with the technique described in the "20 lb of sugar and a jar of yeast nutrient" thread. I like the 290f version, it delivers tons of flavor and the "bowl of cherries" description fits it perfectly. It's also easy, cheap, and fun to make, so I cook up a bigger batch and store it in jars.
 
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archthered

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What is this fantastic recipe that you speak of? Need the, uh, right perspective....
Maris Otter- 8lbs.-53.3%
Munich- 4 lbs.- 26.7%
Caramel 80- 1lb.- 6.7%
Special B- 1lb.- 6.7%
D90 candi syrup- 1lb.- 6.7% Added after high krausen
Spruce tips- 2oz 15 min boil
Juniper leaves and berries- 2oz 15 min boil
Hops at 60 to get 45 IBU- the variety matters little but i usually use Warrior
London Ale III Wyeast 1318 with a hell of a starter fermented a little on the warm side

Basically it's an Old Ale with a OG near 1.081 and FG near 1.021 and an ABV near 8%, mash high I usually go with 156F, I've had it finish lower but I like it better with a higher FG.
 
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OldDogBrewing

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I've brewed a lot of Belgian ales, especially tripels and quads, and I've had a lot of luck with the technique described in the "20 lb of sugar and a jar of yeast nutrient" thread. I like the 290f version, it delivers tons of flavor and the "bowl of cherries" description fits it perfectly. It's also easy, cheap, and fun to make, so I cook up a bigger batch and store it in jars.
Those recipes sound really cool, do you use any specific type of pan to do it? I don't want to chose the wrong one and end up with a pan full of burnt caramel hahahhaa

And the nutrient needs to have DAP in it right?
 
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archthered

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Thanks to all that replied. I was able to order some for now but I'm going to try making my own soon to see how it goes
 

IslandLizard

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Those recipes sound really cool, do you use any specific type of pan to do it? I don't want to chose the wrong one and end up with a pan full of burnt caramel hahahhaa

And the nutrient needs to have DAP in it right?
I use a 2 or 3 quart stainless pot with a thick aluminum or copper clad bottom.
A thick bottom helps with even heat distribution, heat retention, and potential scorching. A triple-ply bottom would be most ideal.
I guess an enameled heavy cast iron pot would be good too.

You want a pot with a "tall" aspect ratio. Choose a relatively narrow, tall pot over a shallow, wide one.

I would not use non-stick pots, as the higher temps and and constant stirring and scraping may damage the coating. But I don't really know, as we don't have any of those.

Don't use plastic utensils, 260-300F will melt or deform them. I know from experience...
 

IslandLizard

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Thanks to all that replied. I was able to order some for now but I'm going to try making my own soon to see how it goes
Save some of the bought syrup(s) out, as a gauge of flavor and color against your homemade syrups.

BTW, I use fairly high gravity (condensed) wort, instead of water for my (darker) sugar syrups. Often some saved first runnings from the beer it's being used in.

[Added]
I guess one could use DME (or LME), instead of using wort.
 
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OldDogBrewing

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I use a 2 or 3 quart stainless pot with a thick aluminum or copper clad bottom.
A thick bottom helps with even heat distribution, heat retention, and potential scorching. A triple-ply bottom would be most ideal.
I guess an enameled heavy cast iron pot would be good too.

You want a pot with a "tall" aspect ratio. Choose a relatively narrow, tall pot over a shallow, wide one.

I would not use non-stick pots, as the higher temps and and constant stirring and scraping may damage the coating. But I don't really know, as we don't have any of those.

Don't use plastic utensils, 260-300F will melt or deform them. I know from experience...
Thanks! So it can be done with a household pan.

I know candy makers use copper so I had doubts if Stainless would work, so is great to know it does. Do you think a wooden spoon will resist that heat? Already burned one myself so I can't burn another without getting in trouble at home hahaha
 

IslandLizard

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Thanks! So it can be done with a household pan.

I know candy makers use copper so I had doubts if Stainless would work, so is great to know it does. Do you think a wooden spoon will resist that heat? Already burned one myself so I can't burn another without getting in trouble at home hahaha
Yes, I've only used stainless pots so far, but have been eying up using an enameled cast iron one for making a larger batch. I usually make batches using no less than 2 pounds of sugar at a time, smaller amounts are cumbersome, not enough mass, or depth in the pot, unless you use a smaller, tall one. Some saucepans may do it.

I use a large stainless serving spoon to stir and scrape the bottom and sides ot the pot. I guess a wooden spoon would work well too. Make sure the (wooden) spoon is not tainted with other flavors! Those carry over in a jiffy. Nothing worse than unexpected Onion-Garlic sugar syrup!

And a smaller (stainless) spoon to sometimes scrape the stuck-on sugar off the larger one, back into the bubbling liquid, and also to dip, taking small samples to drip onto the aluminum foil to check progress and color. Taste those cooled droplets, they're delicious and give you good feedback on what different colors taste like.

Prevent pyrolyzing (burning) it! Go slow, time at lower temps add flavor, haste doesn't. For darker ones, let the temp climb ever so slowly, prevent burning it.
 
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Those recipes sound really cool, do you use any specific type of pan to do it? I don't want to chose the wrong one and end up with a pan full of burnt caramel hahahhaa

And the nutrient needs to have DAP in it right?
I use a heavy copper stew pot that has a stainless lining. The copper construction spreads heat more efficiently than anything else, and it responds instantly to flame adjustments. It's a bit of a tightrope TBH, the repeated heat ramps, so choose a pot with at least twice the capacity stated in your recipe in order to safely contain the foaming that will occur.
 
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