Beersmith vs Brun Water different ppm for CaCl2

[okiedog]

Compared to Brun Water 1.17b, why does BeerSmith 2.3 water profile tool show CaCl2 as having different ppm for both Calcium and Chloride? I use Brun Water to determine the water profile for a specific beer style. Then I input those numbers into the BeerSmith Target Profile and ask it to match the profile to get my mineral salt additions. But the ppm always come out different for calcium chloride.

ie:
BeerSmith >> for 8 gal. water, 4g CaCL2 = Ca 36ppm and CL2 63.7 ppm

Brun Water>>for 1 gal. water, 4g CaCL2 = Ca 44.7ppm and CL2 84.4 ppm
(.5g X 8 gal. = 4g).

 

[ajdelange]

One is using the anhydride and the other the dihydrate.

 

[okiedog]

One is using the anhydride and the other the dihydrate.

How can I determine which of the two I am using? I have the granulated CaCl2 from L. D. Carlson.

 

[stpug]

How can I determine which of the two I am using? I have the granulated CaCl2 from L. D. Carlson.

Anhydride with impurities and water (according to AJ a couple years back)
source

 

[okiedog]

Sounds like I should be using a different product. Any recommendations?

 

[ajdelange]

How can I determine which of the two I am using? I have the granulated CaCl2 from L. D. Carlson.

See https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=501377. You have CaCl2.xH20 and that post tells you how to determine what x is or, more to the point, how much CaCl2 you get out of a gram of the material you have in hand. It changes pretty dramatically as the salt picks up water from the air.

 

[okiedog]

Thanks, AJ! I have read your original post, and am reading through all the follow up posts on that thread. Though I can follow the basic information, there are parts that I'm sure I'll never have the inclination to concentrate all the brain power needed for me to fully understand. All I need is a fairly simple repeatable way to determine CaCL2 additions to brew water, and I believe your solution 100 mL example/method is it. I will have to give it a try.

 

[mabrungard]

Remember, you can convert your hydrated CaCl2 back into its Anhydrate form by placing it on a cookie sheet and baking at 375F to 400F for about an hour. Place the mineral back into a sealed container and it should maintain its anhydrate form longer.

 

[ajdelange]

If you do this the heated material should be cooled in a dessicator i.e. a sealed container with Dryerite or silica gel packets enclosed. The rates of water pickup of the anhydride (and even the dihydrate) are impressive. This is clearly more of a problem in the humid air of summer than the dry air of winter but be aware that even the dihydrate will accumulate a substantial fraction of its weight as water just by opening and closing the container to remove the salt over time. We are not doing quantitative analysis here so perhaps we need not be that concerned but if we are the making of a solution seems the easiest thing to do. Even the solutions will pick up or loose water when the bottle containing them is open depending on the strength of the solution and the relative humidity of the air but the rate of exchange is much slower than with the powders.

 

[okiedog]

Thanks, Martin and AJ. But I'm wondering, why can't I just dehydrate in the oven, then quickly weigh out the amount needed, and pitch right into my brewing water?

 

[ajdelange]

You can if you are quick. Or you can just use the prills right out of the bottle and not worry about it. If you are off in calcium or chloride by 20% does that really matter? If it does then dry every time you want to use CaCl2 or make a stock solution of it, determine its strength and measure in mL rather than grams thereafter.

 

[okiedog]

Well, I guess I'll have to get me a more accurate scale now. 20%, I don't know. It seems that it would make a noticeable difference .I have noticed that my beers have seemed a to be getting a little drier. I would like to be fairly consistent for brews that I repeat on a regular basis. Guess I'll have to give it a try and let see how it turns out.

 

[ajdelange]

20%, I don't know. It seems that it would make a noticeable difference .

Your eyes and ears respond geometrically rather than arithmetically and it is reasonable to hypothesize, therefore, that your taste buds do too (though do note that I speak of hypothesis rather than fact). Twenty percent is 0.079 log units or 0.79 dB were we talking about sound or 0.26 EV were we talking about light. These are not big differences. Do you think you would perceive a beer with a pH 0.08 different (20% more or less hydrogen ions) from that of another as being more or less sour?

You could certainly do some simple experiments. Make a mild brine solution and taste it full strength and diluted 4:1 (20% ion concentration difference).

 

[okiedog]

Interesting, AJ. I haven't done any experiments to determine what taste differences I could perceive. But couldn't a 20% difference in CaCl2 possibly affect the sulfate to chloride ratio enough to change a beer, say, from balanced to malty or dry?

 

[ajdelange]

Sulfate and chloride are independent ions. The ratio isn't really meaningful. See the sticky on this above.

 

[okiedog]

Sulfate and chloride are independent ions. The ratio isn't really meaningful. See the sticky on this above.

Sorry to be in a quandary, but what sticky?

 

[ajdelange]

Ah, sorry. It's under Brrwing Science.

 

[okiedog]

Thanks, AJ. I just found and read your sticky "Chloride to sulfate ratio", as well as the one referenced by Yooper, "A Brewing Water Primer", which I had read some time ago. As I have gotten into using a brewing water calculator for every brew now, I have noticed that I do not always get the results expected. I always brew with 100% distilled water, so the only minerals are what I add.