Beersmith to Brewfather - Robobrew profile issues

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CUSTOM-441

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As the title says, I'm trying to copy my equipment profile from Beersmith to Brewfather. The issue I'm having is my mash/sparge water volumes are not the same when all values in the equipment profile are identical to Beersmith. I've pretty well dialled Beersmith to the point where my mash & sparge volumes are nearly perfect on brew day, so I'd like for these numbers to be the same in Brewfather. A big question I also have is for some reason Beersmith has always assumed no mash tun deadspace, and Brewfather assumed 1.7gal. There definitely is deadspace, but since the numbers from Beersmith have always worked I never questioned it. For comparisons sake in both programs I've put the deadspace at 0. Anyways, for a given recipe here are the numbers I'm getting:

Beersmith
Total Water: 7.64gal
Mash Water Vol: 4.3gal
Sparge Water Vol: 3.34gal

Brewfather
Total Water: 7.37gal
Mash Water Vol: 4.25gal
Sparge Water Vol: 3.12gal
I know 0.3gal is close, but shouldn't they be identical? Has anyone experienced a similar issue? This tickles my OCD... what am I missing?!
 

VikeMan

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I don't use either of those programs, but I would be looking for differences in grain absorption, transfer losses, hop absorption, and boil-off rate. I'd also make sure both have defined "batch size" the same way, e.g. volume into the fermenter and not post-boil volume or packaged volume.
 
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CUSTOM-441

CUSTOM-441

Robobrew v3.1 35L
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I don't use either of those programs, but I would be looking for differences in grain absorption, transfer losses, hop absorption, and boil-off rate. I'd also make sure both have defined "batch size" the same way, e.g. volume into the fermenter and not post-boil volume or packaged volume.
Yep, I've made all of those numbers the same..

Batch Vol: 5.25gal
Trub/Chiller Loss: 0.25gal
Fermenter Loss: 0.25gal
Grain absorption: 0.48qt/lb
Water/Grist: 1.7qt/lb
Boil-off Rate: 0.7gal/hr

The pre/post boil numbers add up to 6.43/5.73gal in each program, which is fine, but why the difference in mash/sparge water? Especially since I'm using the same grain absorption rate and water/grist ratio.
 
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CUSTOM-441

CUSTOM-441

Robobrew v3.1 35L
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Ok.. so... after matching all of my numbers listed above, I was just messing around with the Brewfather profile, and under 'Mash/Sparge water Calculation Method' I selected 'Ignore Boil Expansion' and voila; numbers are the same.

What does this mean? And don't say I'm ignoring the boil expansion...
 

VikeMan

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Ok.. so... after matching all of my numbers listed above, I was just messing around with the Brewfather profile, and under 'Mash/Sparge water Calculation Method' I selected 'Ignore Boil Expansion' and voila; numbers are the same.

What does this mean? And don't say I'm ignoring the boil expansion...

The volume of water (and wort) expands with higher temperatures. Some software shows volumes as they would be measured at the temperatures corresponding with each stage. Some software shows volumes as if the water/wort is at room temp at all times. The latter is, to me, less confusing for planning purposes, but from a production measurement standpoint, the former can be useful, depending on the brewer's process.

I don't really know what Brewfather is doing with that "ignore" setting. You're saying that the volumes increased when you selected "Ignore Boil Expansion?"
 
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CUSTOM-441

CUSTOM-441

Robobrew v3.1 35L
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I don't really know what Brewfather is doing with that "ignore" setting. You're saying that the volumes increased when you selected "Ignore Boil Expansion?"

I'm with you - I measure my water out ahead of time, so the expansion numbers wouldn't make sense for me. The theory makes sense though.

And yes, when I selected 'ignore boil expansion' my missing 0.3gal magically appeared in my volumes.
 

kevin58

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Beersmith has always assumed no mash tun deadspace
Beersmith cannot assume anything. You need to tell Beersmith what your deadspace is. If you just selected an equipment profile and used it as your own be aware that those profiles were supplied by other brewers and Brad selected them to be the most representative for inclusion with the program. Your style of brewing and how you use your equipment can differ quite a bit from someone else using the same Robobrew system. That is why it is important for every Beersmith user to customize the equipment profile to your own needs either by building one from scratch or as Brad Smith recommends, using the supplied equipment profiles only as a foundation for customizing your own. I am not familiar with the other software but it is likely that the profiles included are also user supplied. Different software... different source for their profiles... different results. Whichever software you decide to use you need to customize your own profiles.
 
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CUSTOM-441

CUSTOM-441

Robobrew v3.1 35L
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Beersmith cannot assume anything. You need to tell Beersmith what your deadspace is. If you just selected an equipment profile and used it as your own be aware that those profiles were supplied by other brewers and Brad selected them to be the most representative for inclusion with the program. Your style of brewing and how you use your equipment can differ quite a bit from someone else using the same Robobrew system. That is why it is important for every Beersmith user to customize the equipment profile to your own needs either by building one from scratch or as Brad Smith recommends, using the supplied equipment profiles only as a foundation for customizing your own. I am not familiar with the other software but it is likely that the profiles included are also user supplied. Different software... different source for their profiles... different results. Whichever software you decide to use you need to customize your own profiles.

Fair enough. I have used the profile as a base line and customized quite a bit of my own profile in Beersmith, however I guess I was wrong in assuming the deadspace was a volume provided by the creator of the original profile, since this is how it appears in other software such as Brewfather. Anyways, it seems like I've figured it out and everything matches now. Thanks all for your input!
 

VikeMan

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Fair enough. I have used the profile as a base line and customized quite a bit of my own profile in Beersmith, however I guess I was wrong in assuming the deadspace was a volume provided by the creator of the original profile, since this is how it appears in other software such as Brewfather. Anyways, it seems like I've figured it out and everything matches now. Thanks all for your input!

Well, if you've never entered anything, i.e. no parameter directly, and have selected no profile that included a non-zero/non-null value for the deadspace, Beersmith certainly would "assume" something, possibly 0. (I don't know if it's 0, as I don't use the program.) Every algorithm that does math uses default values where users (or tables or datasets) haven't entered anything. Otherwise, they wouldn't get very far. :)
 
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