Beersmith help

[Abrayton]

I am preparing to brew my first all grain batch and I am attempting to use beersmith for the first time. I'm going to post my equipment and recipe profile below. Just looking for suggestions on how it looks. I know a lot of it needs to be tweaked based on multiple batch results. The things that stand out as odd to me is the relatively low mash volume compared to sparge volume as well as pre and post boil volumes. Any feedback is greatly appreciated! FYI my setup is a ten gallon round igloo cooler and a ten gallon kettle (14.8 inch diameter)

Belgian Blond Ale
All Grain (5.50 gal) ABV: 6.23 %
OG: 1.062 SG FG: 1.015 SG
IBUs: 27.8 IBUs Color: 5.1 SRM

Aaron' Rig
Batch Volume: 5.50 gal
Efficiency: 75.0 %
Hop Util (Large Batch): 100.0 %
Mash/Lauter Tun
Mash Tun Volume: 10.00 gal
Mash Tun Mass: 10 lb
Tun Specific Heat: 0.30 Cal/g-C
Mash Tun Addition: 0.00 gal
Lauter Deadspace: 0.00 gal
Adjust Vol for Deadspace: Yes
Boiler
Kettle Top up: 0.00 gal
Calc Boil Vol: Yes
Boil Volume: 8.89 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
Boil Off: 1.88 gal
Post Boil Vol: 7.02 gal
Cooling Loss: 0.28 gal
Fermenter/Bottling Volumes
Trub/Chiller Loss: 1.25 gal
Top Up Water: 0.00 gal
Batch Volume: 5.50 gal
Fermenter Loss: 0.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal

Mash Profile
Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge

Temperatures
Grain Temp: 72.0 F
Tun Temp: 72.0 F
Sparge Temp: 168.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: Yes
Mash Steps

Mash In (158.0 F for 45 min, 2 min rise)
Add 3.55 gal of water at 179.2 F
Mash Properties
Grain Weight Basis: 11 lb 5.8 oz
Boiling Temp: 212.0 F
Mash PH: 5.4
Batch Sparge Options
Batch Sparge: Yes
Use equal batches: No
Fill mash tun: 90.0 %
Drain tun before sparge: Yes
Brew in a Bag and Full Boil Mashes
Force Full Boil (BIAB) Mash: No
Boil Vol Basis: 5.00 gal

Mash In
Type: Infusion
Step Temp: 158.0 F
Step Time: 45 min
Rise Time: 2 min
Water to Add: 3.55 gal
Water/Grain Ratio: 1.250 qt/lb

Mash Ingredients
9 lb 13.0 oz - Pilsner (2 Row) Bel
1 lb - Munich Malt
5.3 oz - Biscuit Malt
3.5 oz - Melanoiden Malt
0 min - Mash In (158.0 F for 45 min, 2 min rise)
Add 3.55 gal of water at 179.2 F
47 min - Mash Complete
Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun, 6.71 gal) of 168.0 F water

 

[chickypad]

I think you've got way too much loss there, for a 5 gal batch you're planning 1.25 gal to trub and 0.5 gal fermenter loss? I like to set my kettle trub loss to zero and account for any actual trub losses by increasing the batch size. To me it's much easier to reproduce numbers this way, though I tend to dump almost everything in the fermenter anyway. I find on a 5 gal batch after everything has compacted down it's about 0.5 loss - maybe .75 - which I put in fermenter losses. If you eliminate or at least significantly reduce your trub loss that will drop your sparge volume.

You can increase your mash water - try 1.5 or 1.75 qt/lb - to get more equal volumes from your first runnings and single sparge. Also have you measured boil off? Seems a tad high but I don't know the shape of your kettle. I boil off about 1.75 gal per hr in my 20 gal kettle, .65 in my 5 gal kettle, and I used to have a 14 gal kettle that boiled of about 1.25 gal per hr. IMO it's always better to underestimate boil off as you can top off with a little water, as opposed to having to boil longer at the end and change hop profiles.

 

[kh54s10]

I agree that you have a lot of losses in your profile. I have a braid in my mash tun so tun losses is set at .10, I bag my hops and drain my kettle almost entirely so it is also set at .10. I have the fermentation loss set at .2

I ignore the sparge amounts. I know that I need about 7.3 gallons preboil to get just over 5 gallons into the fermenter. I measure how much wort I get from the mash then I know how much to sparge with. I usually do it in 2 additions, measuring after the first sparge and doing the second sparge with enough to get to 7.3 gallons preboil. This leave very little water in the mash tun.

 

[Abrayton]

Thank you for the quick response. I will make the adjustments. Not sure on boil off as this is a new pot, 10g (14.8inch diameter).

 

[Abrayton]

Curious why my IBUs shot up when I set trub loss to zero?

 

[LLBeanJ]

Setting trub/chiller loss to zero effectively reduced your batch size post-boil, so you have less dilution going on.

 

[Abrayton]

Dumb question here but I assume I need to then adjust hop quantity in order to get back to the IBU I want?

 

[LLBeanJ]

Dumb question here but I assume I need to then adjust hop quantity in order to get back to the IBU I want?

Yes. Perhaps I'm off track here, but I would think your OG also increased. Seems to me that if you are aiming for 5.5 gal into the fermenter and the original calculations had 1.25 gal trub loss post-boil, BS is going to require more water, grain, and hops to account for what is essentially wasted wort. Take out (or decrease) the trub loss and you'll need less of everything to hit your numbers going into the fermenter.

 

[Abrayton]

Hmm. My predicament now seems to be that I have a bag full of crushed grains based on my original profile. I can easily change hop amounts but not grains. Any advice?

 

[LLBeanJ]

Increase the batch size in BS to get your OG where you want it using the original grain bill and brew a bigger batch. There's no rule that you have to put it all in the fermenter. Or just brew a higher OG beer. The amount of specialty malts is low enough that I don't think you'll have any issues with the taste.

 

[Oginme]

Increase the batch size in BS to get your OG where you want it using the original grain bill and brew a bigger batch. There's no rule that you have to put it all in the fermenter. Or just brew a higher OG beer. The amount of specialty malts is low enough that I don't think you'll have any issues with the taste.

Ah, one of the confusing things about BeerSmith is that the OP's OG will be the same as the original recipe with the extra trub loss. BeerSmith uses the brew house (or total) efficiency and your water volumes to determine how much sugar should get pulled from the grist [i.e. mash efficiency]. So one of the impacts of lowering your process losses is that the software will reduce your mash efficiency to compensate for the lower amount of water being used.

So, here is what I would suggest. Since this is your first all-grain batch and you are pretty much taking reasonable guesses at your process losses and overall efficiency anyway, just brew it and use the resulting numbers to adjust your equipment profile for next time. Just make sure you take good readings on volumes and gravity readings and enter them into the session tab to have BeerSmith calculate out your realized mash and BH efficiency.

OTOH, if you feel that your numbers are pretty close to what you will get for mash efficiency, go back to your original recipe and note the mash efficiency. Now, remove the trub loss as you had planned. Adjust the BH efficiency to get the mash efficiency back to the number (or reasonably close) to what it was in the original version.

Oh, yeah, adjust the hops since the reduction in total water will result in a higher concentration of isomerized AAs.

 

[Abrayton]

Thanks for all of the responses. I've decided to stick with 5.5g batch size, enter all trub loss at 0, reduce my expected 90min boil loss to 1.13g, adjust hop additions, stick with original grain bill, take accurate readings throughout the brewing process, cross my fingers, and RDWHAHB.

 

[chickypad]

With RDWHAHB being the most important step
Just take good measurements and in no time you'll be dialed in.

 

[h22lude]

You should test boil off before your run. It is easy enough. 1.8 gallons is possible but it is higher than average. Just boil 5 gallons for an hour.

One thing to always think about is water expands when heated and BeerSmith does not take this into consideration. Not a huge deal but I can throw off your volume by as much as .25 gallons.

 

[IslandLizard]

You should test boil off before your run. It is easy enough. 1.8 gallons is possible but it is higher than average. Just boil 5 gallons for an hour.

One thing to always think about is water expands when heated and BeerSmith does not take this into consideration. Not a huge deal but I can throw off your volume by as much as .25 gallons.

There's no need for a test boil. Waste of time and energy.

Estimate a gallon per hour, and brew away. If it's more, turn your heat down next time, you're wasting energy. If it's less, adjust in BS. Chances are you won't be more than a quart off in a 5-6 gallon batch.

 

[h22lude]

There's no need for a test boil. Waste of time and energy.

Estimate a gallon per hour, and brew away. If it's more, turn your heat down next time, you're wasting energy. If it's less, adjust in BS. Chances are you won't be more than a quart off in a 5-6 gallon batch.

I disagree. I boil off about the same as OP, 1.8 gallons. I have my element on lower power. Any lower and I won't have a good boil. Others boil off only a gallon with the same good boil. If I enter 1 gallon in BS, my volumes and gravity will not be correct. I would be .8 gallons short and my gravity would be higher than expected. Boil is very easy to calculate ahead of time. You can figure it out after your first batch but why take the risk of having extra work to fix an incorrect boil off amount.

If I took your suggestion, I'd have to figure out how much water to add to get back to the volume and gravity I wanted. Much easier to boil water ahead if time and get the actual number instead of winging it. Some people like being precise and others don't. To each their own.

 

[Abrayton]

Another question about beersmith. My post mash and boil volume are the same which makes sense, but why are my post mash gravity and pre boil gravity different? I'm sure it's not a big deal I'm just curious.

 

[Oginme]

I assume you are looking at the estimated pre-boil gravity. The only differences between the two would be seen if you are adding any sugars (sugar, LME, DME) before the boil or doing any dilution to get to boil volume.

 

[Abrayton]

Yep, sugar addition to boil. Thank you