Beersmith Equip. profile for extract setup

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kartracer2

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I guess i am dense,stupid of maybe just missing something.:rolleyes:
I am using Beersmith 2.2.13 trial to see if's something useful to "me" before I buy it. (as do I really need it as an extract brewer) but i have some questions.
1. I'm not sure how to set up the equipment profiles. I brew with extracts w/steeping grains sometimes. 2.5 gal starting boils. (water in kettle) 5gal. batch. I also will probably try 1/2 extract at boil with remainder close to flame out. So the question is what should my setup numbers be?.
2. I made a kit and the OG (1.049) and IBU's (53-57) are off (OG (1.061) IBU's (24.5) in BS) from both the recipe and my results. Thoughts, ideas? I suspect it has to do with my Equp. profile coupled with my ignoance. Can any one offer insight?

Thanks Joel B.

P.S. If more info is needed I'll do my best to profide it, just ask. Thanks again.
 

Oginme

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First, I would recommend doing a trial of BS3, being as it is the latest and does offer some more support for building your equipment profile. There is an equipment wizard which will walk you through the steps of making a profile which takes some of the guesswork out.

The equipment profile really defines your process. There are videos on Brad's site and on YouTube about setting up equipment profiles, but most of those are geared towards all-grain brewers.

Start either by selecting a pre-made equipment profile which best matches the size of your system or by just creating a new profile. Since you are doing extract with steeping grains, make sure you set the type to 'extract', which will drop out the sections which are strictly for all-grain brewers. This should help make the process a bit simpler.

Now the only things you need to really concern yourself with is your batch volume (how much you want to end up with in the fermenter), your standard boil time (you can change this in the recipe as needed), boil off rate, loss to trub and chiller (all post boil volume losses), any top off water to the fermenter, and fermenter loss. Adding your elevation and total whirlpool time will help adjust your hop utilization when it comes to calculating an IBU number.

If you are not sure of your boil off, then measure a known amount of water in your kettle and boil for 15 minutes. Measure the volume after the boil stops and the difference times 4 is your boil off rate per hour. It will be close enough to start but if you have actual numbers from past recipes to use, this would be more accurate. If you have not made a measuring stick for your kettle, I would recommend that you do so to get good volume readings. I show the method I use for making a measuring stick here: Developing a profile for the Anvil 6.5G Brewing System - Part 1.

If you have pre-etched markings, I would recommend that you check the accuracy. I have three vessels which were pre-marked and only one of them was close to accurate.

Now as to some practices such as splitting your extract additions, that is handled in the recipe itself.

As to whether brewing software such as BeerSmith suits your needs, it may be a bit overkill for extract brewing calculations but if you like to design your own recipes it will make that process a lot easier. Once you get your profiles set and refined over a couple of brews, it will make your results a lot more predictable.
 
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kartracer2

kartracer2

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Thanks @Oginme for the reply. First BS3 doesn't work on Win XP, yeah I still use XP. Hell, I still use the classic Windows theme on it, I'm a bit old school I guess. I even broke down and bought plastic fermenters w/ spigots and used Star san for the first time on this brew. I have been on a many year hiatus from home brewing and the restart ( and this place, for better or worse) has changed a few of my old ways. (thanks for that ,,, I think)
After playing around a bit with BS I figured out what it wanted for numbers and why. With extract I never worried about boil off, it was what it was. I am going to have to do a test to get those numbers and also other typical losses to accurately use the program.
For what I have found in working out my issues, Computers are only so good. With out the right inputs you'll never get the right outputs. (GIGO) I stupidly used DME instead of LME for the extract input. That alone fixed the gravity issue. :rolleyes:
As far as the IBU deal, X hops boiled for Y long gives you IBU's right? It looks like BS2, by default used Tinsinth (sp) method. I used the calculator in BS2 and found that the Getez (sp) method gives me the numbers that the recipe stated. But that raises a question, which one is most widely used? Again, with extract kits the hops you got is what what you used. Yeah I fiddled with the amounts and type before to tailor to taste but never really worried about the actual IBU numbers, staying close to the recipe though.
Now as far as buying the program, yeah I think I will. It makes it easy to twiddle around with a recipe and see how it changes things up. I haven't used it yet but the converting from AG to extract tool looks neat too.
Over kill for extract brewers?, maybe so, but I have spent more money with less actual return before. ( read foolish fun). If it saves me from making 1 batch that I don't like, it will be worth it. And who knows, I might even grow up some day and get to sit with the big table "grain fiddlers"!.
I'm sure I'll have more questions later but at least you have helped getting me pointed the right way. (?) Sorry for the long read.
Thanks again, :mug:

Joel B.
 

VikeMan

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It looks like BS2, by default used Tinsinth (sp) method. I used the calculator in BS2 and found that the Getez (sp) method gives me the numbers that the recipe stated. But that raises a question, which one is most widely used?
I would bet that Tinseth is the most widely used model.
 
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kartracer2

kartracer2

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I would bet that Tinseth is the most widely used model.
Thanks for the reply.
Yeah, I figured that because it was set as default. But why would a huge player in the supply ballgame use a less popular method? Just wondering,,,
 

Oginme

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Yes, Tinseth is the most widely used model, probably followed by Rager. In the end all the models are good for the system they were developed on and better than a guess for your system. I use the IBU numbers for benchmarking only and relate that to my perception of bitterness. My last beer was a bit bitter by about 15% more than I expected? Then I will cut the IBU target down by that amount for the next brew of that recipe.

The supplier probably used it because that is what they had settled on many years ago. It really does not matter which model you use, just stick with it and get to understand how your perception of bitterness relates to the target for the recipe.

Gotcha on the BS2 vs BS3. No issues here. The set up of the equipment profile is pretty much the same. If I remember correctly, the equipment profile just grays out the fields which are not used for extract in BS2.

One of the fun things with BeerSmith (I purchased it when I was doing extract also) was playing around with recipes. I quickly filled up with about 80 to 90 recipes that I wrote. I've brewed a few, but the rest became converted to all-grain when I switched and have undergone many alterations since as I have refined the recipes and learned more about ingredients.

Feel free to ask away any questions you may have about BeerSmith, either here or on the BeerSmith forum. I haunt these and a couple of other forums.
 
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kartracer2

kartracer2

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Thanks again @Orinme ,
The supplier probably used it because that is what they had settled on many years ago. It really does not matter which model you use, just stick with it and get to understand how your perception of bitterness relates to the target for the recipe.
I will probably use the Tenseth, method as my model. I will need to take note to the numbers and my tastes to make a base line and go from there. That's one downside of "knowing" what you are doing,, it makes it harder to blame anyone but your self for making something that's just not right. The up side is it makes it easy to see where and why it might turn out that way. So on that note, are most of the brewery's using the "T" method?. I assume that that they do then.


Feel free to ask away any questions you may have about BeerSmith, either here or on the BeerSmith forum. I haunt these and a couple of other forums.
I am sure I will have more questions, I always seem to. I am looking forward to getting back the hobby again. i enjoyed it before and so far kick my self for not doing it sooner. I am looking at a Dunkle Wisse soon, one of my favorites, and I so want it to come out as close to right the first go as I can.

Ha, already another question. If I plan a two part extract addition, do I list the amounts used at the start and the late one as separate?. For example, 8lbs total, list 4 and 4 and spec when added?.

Thanks again,
Joel B. :mug:
(having fun again watching bubbles and asking possibly stupid questions):bott:
 

Oginme

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of my favorites, and I so want it to come out as close to right the first go as I can.

Ha, already another question. If I plan a two part extract addition, do I list the amounts used at the start and the late one as separate?. For example, 8lbs total, list 4 and 4 and spec when added?.
Yes, you can add the extract in two separate additions and then mark one for 'late boil addition' and put in the number of minutes before the end of the boil you want it to be added.
 
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kartracer2

kartracer2

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Well I regress @Oginme , I thought I had the Hop IBU deal figured out,,,,,but I don't. I found a post in the the BS forum and it sort-of makes sense. If I understand it right, with a partial boil I get less IBU's that a full boil does with the same amount of hops. Is this correct? I ask because any recipe I put into BS with a 3g. Extract equp. profile The IBS's are a long ways off. BS says 33.5 vs. 53-57 in the recipe. Really? I'll need almost twice the hops to make it right?. That said, the in the style guide I chose style 10A and I'm just a little bit off center. I am confused to say the least maybe still stupid. (no doubt) See the attachments, your post and my recipe, I hope I did that right at least. (LOL) Can you help me make sense of this?

Thanks,
Joel B. :bott:
 

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Oginme

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The isomerization efficiency of hop alpha acids are affected by the length of time in the boil, the boil vigor, and the gravity of the wort. If you do a partial boil and then water it down in the fermenter, you reduce the amount of hop oils which get isomerized thus lowering the IBU.

One of the things you can do to increase the IBU is to split your extract to have a lower gravity at the beginning of the boil and then add the bulk of your extract in at 5 minutes before the end. This would create a lower gravity for the majority of the boil and allow better hop utilization.
 

CodeSection

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@kartracer2, at the end of the day, you will dial in your recipe as best as you can and then compare your brew to what you are trying to match. Then you will make additional adjustments on your next brew, etc.

One's brewing altitude is another variable that affects hops utilization. Here are a couple of articles that may be helpful......


 
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kartracer2

kartracer2

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Hey, thanks for that tip. I have been thinking about doing that for color reasons so it looks looks like a win-win. I have been playing around with BS and found a few other things.. What I also found was that the paper work that I got from the kit is "pucked" when it comes to stated IBU's. It claims 53 - 57 IBU's and there is no way with the hops in the kit you could ever get that high a number plus way out of style. That alone removed a lot of confusion. (He-he-he, I "think" it did anyway)

I have a lot to learn if I want to make "GOOD" beer with extract. I want to get to the point where I just buy ingredients and can put together some thing that I really like and can call my "own". I don't think that I'll ever enter in to competitions so being correct to style isn't important to "my" house beer.

Thanks again for putting up with my questions and ignorance, I appreciate your help and knowledge.

Joel B. :mug:

P.S. Thanks @CodeSection, for the links, your post came in as I was fumbling with this reply. I will check them out. Thankies again to you guys.
 

Oginme

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IMHO, the place to focus on is your fermentation. It is easy to make wort, harder to make sure the yeast behave properly to give you the quality beer the wort will deliver. I have had a number of excellent extract beers and the one thing they all had in common was brewers who managed the fermentation temperatures to get the yeast to give them the character the brewer wanted/expected.
 
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