Beersmith Efficiencies

[IchLiebeBier]

All,
I've been scratching my head over this one, but I can't figure it out. Maybe I'm using BeerSmith wrong.

I have a Grainfather, and since I've had a brewing hiatus, I'm brewing smaller batches (2.8 gallon into fermenter) so that if I mess anything up, it won't be as big a loss.

I've been shooting for 85% efficiency, so when I build the recipe, I change BH efficiency to get the estimated mash efficiency to 85%. But when I brew, I frequently hit over 90% efficiency, based on taking readings throughout the entire boiling process (let the sample cool; using refractometer).

I mill my own grains and don't normally get stuck sparges, so I think my mill is set well.

Am I misunderstanding the BeerSmith efficiency concept, or is it because of the smaller grain bill that I'm getting a higher extraction?

Thoughts?

 

[VikeMan]

Your brewhouse and mash effiiencies are functions of your brewing process, not something targeted by the software. You have to provide the software with your efficiency numbers. Not the efficiency that you want, but the efficiency that you get.

That said, when you determine your actual efficiencies (through measurement), make sure you are accurately measuring the wort volume. 90%+ mash efficiency (let alone brewhouse efficiency) isn't very common.

ETA: No, brewing smaller batches does not increase efficiency. Brewing batches with the same resulting wort volume, but with smaller grain bills, does increase efficiency.

 

[day_trippr]

Indeed, I would say on balance the smaller the batch the lower the brewhouse efficiency as there are usually losses that aren't volume sensitive...

Cheers!

 

[kevin58]

You can't just adjust numbers in a brewing software and expect it to happen that way. As VikeMan says your process is key as is your equipment. With Beersmith it is very necessary to customize your equipment profile. I've included a link to a very good tutorial video which will walk you through the steps. It doesn't stop there however once you have done this... for the next several brews (I do this for every brew) you need to take accurate measurements during brew day and record them in your session data. Using those numbers you can then fine tune your equipment profile. Do this and the estimated numbers that Beersmith gives you will more closely match your actual results.

Edit: There is no magic efficiency number. 80 something is no better than 70 something. The key is knowing what your number is and and then you can work with it for consistent results.

 

[day_trippr]

Well...predictability is a major plus when brewing, and a well-tuned equipment profile is pretty much required to get there.
But, clearly there are benefits with higher efficiencies. And that might be important to some...

Cheers!

 

[IchLiebeBier]

Let me explain better what I mean:

When I'm building the recipe in BeerSmith, I change the BH efficiency to get 85% mash efficiency so that it calculates my grain bill for the given target gravity. That in turn, provides me with the mash and sparge water volumes.

During the brew, I am very specific on my measurements, using a measuring pitcher to measure out my water volumes. Then, after the mash and sparge, I use a dip stick that I created that shows the total wort volume in the GF after sparge. I am sure this is accurate. I do not use the numbers on the GF. I input the resulting volume into BeerSmith, along with the gravity reading, and it showed 93.6 % measured mash efficiency on my last brew. And this has happened to me at least 3 times. I had to add water to cut it to the estimated efficiency so that I'd hit my target OG at the end of the boil.

My efficiencies seem to change, even using the same process. That's what's confusing me. When I used a cooler for the mash, my efficiencies were pretty spot on. Around 70-75% for barley mashes, and around 65% if I did a wheat beer or really strong beer. With the GF, I I normally shoot for 85%, but, like I said, I've hit 90+% at least 3 times.

So I'm led to believe that either a) I've stumbled upon some secret that could change the brewing world, or b) I'm doing something wrong and inconsistent in BeerSmith that I haven't figured out yet. Call me crazy, but I'd believe option b before a.

 

[day_trippr]

Call me crazy, but I'd believe option b before a.

Given my experience using Beersmith for ~15 years now, I'm inclined to agree

Cheers!

[edit] btw, I'm basically "neutral" wrt BeerSmith. I appreciate what it enables, but I'm definitely not a fan boi, as there's a list of things that aggravate me. In particular the complete lack of accounting for wort loss to hops that would be trivial to accommodate, even with user adjustability features, and in the context of juice bombs, rather significant. Also there are kinks in the inventory functionality that can toast one brown...

Cheers!

 

[VikeMan]

Perhaps you could post an example of one of your high mash efficiencies:

- Grain Bill
- Exact Wort Volume in the Kettle, either pre-boil or post boil
- Gravity of Wort, at same time as the volume above. If measured with a refractometer, provide the Brix reading
- Temperature at which volume and gravity were measured

 

[IchLiebeBier]

Perhaps you could post an example of one of your high mash efficiencies:

- Grain Bill
- Exact Wort Volume in the Kettle, either pre-boil or post boil
- Gravity of Wort, at same time as the volume above. If measured with a refractometer, provide the Brix reading
- Temperature at which volume and gravity were measured

I attached an older brew I did. I think I marked everything down properly with this one. The recent ones, I messed around with the numbers trying to figure out the issues, so I don't really remember what was accurate and don't want to cause confusion.

This was one of my first Grainfather brews, so I set the BH efficiency to 75%, thinking that was the number to match to my known cooler efficiencies. I remember this brew was very good.

Volume measured after sparge, so probably around 170 deg. Gravity usually measured after taking a bit of wort, putting it in a small cup, and letting it cool down. Don't know the temp specifically.

 

[VikeMan]

I'm not a Beersmith user, so I don't know what that file means. Can you list the stuff I asked for? With that info, we can first establish whether or not the actual efficiency number is accurate.

 

[IchLiebeBier]

see if this works. the yellow fields were not changed, so those aren't my numbers.

also, I don't use BeerSmith ph info. I don't find it to be accurate.

 

[kevin58]

I read that as him wanting his comment to be deleted.

 

[IchLiebeBier]

oh, ok. I thought I might have violated some rule I wasn't aware of. Maybe posting the recipe or something.