Beer won't carbonate in keg

[glugglug]

I have a pale ale that has been on CO2 for 3 weeks now and it just will not carbonate. I use the set it and forget it method at about 10psi. I know there's pressure going in because it pours just fine. The other 2 taps are also fine. I've made this pale ale about 15 times. Never had this problem. My mash temp was 150 degrees.

11.5lbs Rahr 2 row Pale Malt
.75lb Crystal 75
.5lb Munich
1oz Cascade 60 min
.5oz Centennial 60 min
1 Whirlfloc tablet 15 min
.5oz Cascade 10 min
.5oz Centennial 10 min
1 wlp090 San Diego Super

Mash @150 for 60 min
90 min boil
14 days in fermenter
21 days trying to carb. My keezer has 3 taps. Same beer lines and lengths the same. Perlick faucet. This is the only beer that won't carbonate. I believe my problem is before the beer lines.

 

[doug293cz]

Did you by any chance forget to purge the headspace multiple times after you filled the keg? If the headspace is not ~100% CO2, the beer won't' carbonate correctly.

Brew on

 

[glugglug]

Yup, I purged it. My routine is to hit it at 30 psi, purge, hit again, purge, then again at 30, then turn the gas off for the next 12 hours or so. Then next day I set the pressure to about 10 psi fo a week.

 

[doug293cz]

Yup, I purged it. My routine is to hit it at 30 psi, purge, hit again, purge, then again at 30, then turn the gas off for the next 12 hours or so. Then next day I set the pressure to about 10 psi fo a week.

That's enough purging so that you shouldn't have carbonation problems. However, if you are worried about oxidative degradation of beer flavors, it still leaves enough O2 in the headspace to be a problem for some beers.

Only other idea I have is that the gas QD might not be fully engaged, but you probably checked that already.

Some folks will probably suggest that the problem could be a CO2 leak (they always do), but if you have CO2 pressure in the headspace, a leak won't prevent carbonation, as long as the pressure is maintained. A leak will cause your CO2 tank to empty out in short order.

Brew on

 

[sandyeggoxj]

I wish I could help... I had this problem with a milk stout once. Didn't have a leak and eventually carbonated. I always just chucked it up to a bad QD but that keg, and the QD, has been through the cycle many times without issue since. Never figured out the issue. FWIW, I am neurotic about multiple headspace purge cycles. There is a chart floating around here about residual O2 after X amount of purge cycles at X PSI. Seems like ~10 cycles at 30 psi is the magic number if I remember correctly.

Good luck!

 

[doug293cz]

Thought of another possibility: if the keg is overfilled to the point that the liquid level is above the cylindrical portion of the keg, then the gas/liquid interface area is reduced, and this can increase the required time for carbonation significantly.

And, here's the chart sandy was talking about:





Brew on

 

[glugglug]

Thanks for the help. Guess I’ll just give it more time like most things. Since I’ve been trying to figure this out for over a week, I’ve pulled the gas disconnect off the keg, and released some pressure to make sure it was getting gas, so that is some extra purging, and I’ve probably pulled about 3 flat pints to check the beer, so that’s increased the head space. I hope it’s just gonna take time. Thanks for the chart. I’ll study that.

 

[bonecitybrewco]

My only guess is that when you are setting it at 30 and then shutting off the gas, it's not holding that pressure.

 

[plazola86]

Thought of another possibility: if the keg is overfilled to the point that the liquid level is above the cylindrical portion of the keg, then the gas/liquid interface area is reduced, and this can increase the required time for carbonation significantly.

Brew on

If you don't have a leak, here is your problem. I've had this happen to me a couple times. pull the lid off and see were the liquid level is at, if you need to pour some flat pints out to create enough headspace.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

@doug293cz thanks for posting that chart again!

 

[Rob2010SS]

Stupid question, but why wouldn't you just leave it at 30 psi for say 24-36 hours and then turn it down to 10? This is the method I've been using and works fairly well....

 

[Rob2010SS]

Also, in regards to that chart about ppm of 02, at what point does O2 become a problem for oxidation?

 

[glugglug]

Stupid question, but why wouldn't you just leave it at 30 psi for say 24-36 hours and then turn it down to 10? This is the method I've been using and works fairly well....

A long time ago I struggled with leaky kegs. It’s left me a bit paranoid. I’ve found that keg lube has helped solve that problem for me. I line the gaskets, blast it at 30psi, then blast again about 12 hours later and check for leaks. Then after about another 12 hours I will set gas to 10psi and check again, and usually leave it on from that point.

I have had the gas on for about 3 weeks on this keg. The gauge has stayed the same.

 

[doug293cz]

Also, in regards to that chart about ppm of 02, at what point does O2 become a problem for oxidation?

Commercial brewers target less than 150 ppb (0.15 ppm) total packaged oxygen, as they have seen flavor degradation with three weeks of room temp storage above that level (http://www.craftbrewersconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2015_presentations/F1540_Darron_Welch.pdf) TPO is affected by how much O2 is dissolved in the beer at packaging, as well as headspace O2 concentration.

Brew on

 

[auburntsts]

Commercial brewers target less than 150 ppb (0.15 ppm) total packaged oxygen, as they have seen flavor degradation with three weeks of room temp storage above that level (http://www.craftbrewersconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2015_presentations/F1540_Darron_Welch.pdf) TPO is affected by how much O2 is dissolved in the beer at packaging, as well as headspace O2 concentration.

Brew on

The PDF you linked also stated "Storage times under refrigeration extend to 4 months before in house triangle testing determines a statistical difference". So that begs the question -- what level for a home brewer is the minimum (ie oxidation isn't noticeable) assuming the beer is always cold (or at least not at room temp) and is consumed in say less than 4 months? IOW is there a level somewhere above 150ppm that's good enough for the home brewer to be reasonably assured of avoiding oxidation issues?

 

[doug293cz]

The PDF you linked also stated "Storage times under refrigeration extend to 4 months before in house triangle testing determines a statistical difference". So that begs the question -- what level for a home brewer is the minimum (ie oxidation isn't noticeable) assuming the beer is always cold (or at least not at room temp) and is consumed in say less than 4 months? IOW is there a level somewhere above 150ppm that's good enough for the home brewer to be reasonably assured of avoiding oxidation issues?

I have no idea.

Brew on

 

[glugglug]

So I brewed a vanilla porter, and it is not carbonating either. Both my pale ale, and this beer are on a new tank of gas, and I'm starting to think I was sold nitro. I usually go in and just ask for CO2. This time, he brought the tank, and I specified I needed it for beer. He took that tank and brought another, but I had to buy the attachment piece that screws into the tank. I've never has to do that. I've had this porter set at 30psi, and I swear it acts like a nitro beer, but I am using a regular perlick tap. I have a nitro setup as well. Are there markings on this tank to indicate if it has CO2 or nitro in it?

 

[doug293cz]

If you needed a tank adapter to attach your CO2 regulator, you didn't get a CO2 tank.

Sorry, IDK about tank markings.

Brew on

 

[Jtk78]

I agree with Doug. If you needed an adapter, something is up. Sounds like you did get nitro, but I don't think there is any markings to say for certain what you have in the cylinder.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Take a picture of the tank MSDS rating tag. It will explicitly tell you the gas contained.

 

[HenryF]

When my beer won't carbonate after a week at 30PSI, I rock it gently (horizontally on my knees when seated), topping-up the pressure to 30PSI, twice, over 10 minutes. My theory is that microscopic oils (from hops?) is on the surface of the still beer, preventing the CO2 from contacting the beer. Gentle mixing breaks that oil barrier. This theory is supported in situations when I do an extra settling stage and syphon into my corny-keg, leaving surface-oils behind, and never have a carbonization problem.

 

[mashpaddled]

Seems most likely either the keg is too full or there is a weak spot in a seal and as pressure builds in the keg the weak spot turns into a leak like a bleed off valve so the pressure isn't forcing CO2 into solution. If any of your gaskets are old on the posts or lid that could explain the problem. If the gaskets are all fairly new and pliable I'd try reseating all the gaskets with keg lube and make sure nothing is bumping into either QD.