Beer Tastes Like Crap!

[pjtracer]

Ok...what did I do wrong? First batch. Used cooper pale ale kit. Fermented 2 weeks, bottled & let it carbonate for 3 weeks. Tried first beer & it smells and has a taste of vineger. Others verified it and smelled/tasted the same thing. I think I am going to have to dump it. What did I do wrong? Any thoughts would be appreciated for my next batch. Very disappointed Thanks!

 

[JLem]

vinegar taste is usually a sign of a bacterial contamination. How did you sanitize your equipment?

More details on your recipe and process would help troubleshoot this.

 

[Yooper]

That is very disappointing!

To help pinpoint what went wrong, can you give us the procedure you followed?

I assume you sanitized your equipment. What did you use?

I'm not a fan of those Coopers kits but they should make a drinkable beer, if not good. Did you add corn sugar to it? If so, how much? Did you add hops or was the can prehopped?

How did you bottle, and how did you clean/sanitize the bottles?

Lastly (I think!), what kind of yeast did you use? And how was the fermentation? Did it get too warm by any chance? Like over 72 degrees?

 

[pjtracer]

It was the coopers kit that was prehopped and included the brew enhancer sugar. It was the first batch and everything is supposedly sanitized by coopers but I sanitized with Starsan on everything. My closet in my garage is about 64F. It did not appear to be fermenting after 3 days (no bubbling in airlock). I pannicked thinking something was wrong so i did put a small heater in there and heated to 70. After reading & learning that was probably a bad idea....My next batch is staying at 64. I sure hope that helps.

 

[unionrdr]

What yeast came with the pale ale kit? I forget. If it's the gold sachet,it's asn ale yeast that ferments best between 68-72F.

 

[pjtracer]

Not real sure on the yeast type but it did come in a gold packet.

 

[unionrdr]

It sounds like the yeast I got with the OS lager kit. All the OS kits,I've read,come with the gold sachet of ale yeast. 68-72F ferment temp is good for that one. Get the ferment temp too high,& you get all kids of off flavors. You also have to clean well & sanitize to keep the lil nasties away.

 

[theredben]

How did you clean/sanitize your bucket/bottles when bottling?

 

[theonetrueruss]

vinegar taste is not likely due to a slightly off fermentation temp.... I am betting something along the way was not well sanitized. You didn't use a wooden spoon to stir bottling sugar or anything like that?

 

[pjtracer]

Starsan for sanitizing everything. I used the long plastic spoon that came with the kit for stiring. Really confused. My second batch that I bottled today smells similar. I am confused. I was really enjoying this hobby but am starting to wonder....Maybe I am not that bright because I didn't think it would be this tough

 

[unionrdr]

Does your fermenter have a spigot on it? My Cooper's FV does (the bottling wand attaches directly to it). It has to be removed every time,cleaned,& sanitized. And the threads in the fermenter as well. Mine smelled like old beer even after washing with PBW & a folded paper towel. Cleaned the threads & tap. No more smells.
Then sanitize when you're getting ready to use the items needed with a no rinse sanitizer. Makes life a lil easier. And I mean the spoon/paddle,everything that touches your beer. No matter how small or for how long.
But I'm thinking dirty spigot...

 

[rjwhite41]

Be extra thorough with your cleaning and sanitizing, that's really all I can think of. Maybe try a different brand of kits. Midwest has pretty decent kits and I hear AHS has great kits but I have never tried them. I still think we have a contamination issue though. Keep at it and when you get that first great beer it will all be worth it.

 

[Yooper]

Be extra thorough with your cleaning and sanitizing, that's really all I can think of. Maybe try a different brand of kits. Midwest has pretty decent kits and I hear AHS has great kits but I have never tried them. I still think we have a contamination issue though. Keep at it and when you get that first great beer it will all be worth it.

I agree with this- Coopers are often well regarded, but I think they are junk. Cidery beer, with 5 gm of bad yeast, and instructions to ferment too warm.

The equipment is ok, but don't use those canned prehopped extracts. They have far better kits at northernbrewer.com, midwest (I think it's midwestsupplies.com, but double check!), and austinhomebrew.com. I'd rate their kits as "excellent". Get a good ale yeast and don't buy Munton's or Cooper's yeasts. I think you'll have a very good and drinkable beer with very little effort!

 

[Golddiggie]

I was given a packet of cooper's yeast when buying a bunch of stuff from the LHBS... It was just on the counter and the guy at the register just tossed it in... I pulled it back out (a little offended at the time) asking what the F was I supposed to do with that cr*p... "toss it into the boil as yeast nutrient"... Probably the best use for Coopers and/or Munton's yeasts...

 

[boo boo]

Only thing I can think of is the make sure everything that touches the beer is clean before trying to sanitize.

 

[Golddiggie]

Only thing I can think of is the make sure everything that touches the beer is clean before trying to sanitize.

I make it a point to sanitize EVERYTHING that is going to touch the wort/brew post boil. That includes the wine thief and hydrometer tube when I take samples. I have a bucket of StarSan mixed at all times, so it's never an issue to dip something into it before using.

 

[boo boo]

. I have a bucket of StarSan mixed at all times, so it's never an issue to dip something into it before using.

Yeah, me too.

 

[Gameface]

You are sanitizing just before using whatever got sanitized, right? Sanitizing the night before and letting the equipment dry means you're going to need to sanitize again. It's best to let your sanitized equipment stay a little wet/foamy from the sanitizer up to and during use.

Is it possible that what you're calling a vinegar taste is actually a cider taste?

 

[Golddiggie]

Personally, I sanitize the primary as I'm brewing. I make sure I get plenty of StarSan in it, get it to cover every square nm of it, drain, and put it inverted into a small bucket. The bucket also has StarSan in it, so that anything going into the bucket is sanitized/killed before it has a chance to get to the carboy's opening. I'm talking about one of the 2 gallon buckets you can get from the LHBS here.

Have had zero issues using this method. Plus, the primary usually still has foam in it when it's time to put the chilled wort in.

There have been times where I just barely touch something I've sanitized with something not sanitized... I usually curse and dip it into the StarSan bucket again... Better to take another moment to ensure it's sanitized than risk something bad happening to the brew because I didn't dip it again.

Having 2.5-3+ gallons of StarSan on hand is very handy... Makes bottling day a bit easier too. Especially since I don't have one of those vinator deals yet (not sure if I will)... Plus having a spray bottle filled with StarSan helps... You can quickly sanitize many things with that.

 

[davel57]

Did you top off will cold water after the boil? If so, what was the source of your water? I've done this and haven't had a problem yet, but ...

 

[Golddiggie]

Is the recipe for a Magic Hat #2 clone?

 

[Homebrewtastic]

Ok...what did I do wrong? First batch. Used cooper pale ale kit. Fermented 2 weeks, bottled & let it carbonate for 3 weeks. Tried first beer & it smells and has a taste of vineger. Others verified it and smelled/tasted the same thing. I think I am going to have to dump it. What did I do wrong? Any thoughts would be appreciated for my next batch. Very disappointed Thanks!

Say it with me now class....

"acetobacter"

It's a nasty little bug that eats your alcohol and turns it into vinegar.

 

[pjtracer]

Lots of comments. Thanks all. I sanitize as I am doing things with starsan, not the night before. I am pretty sure I am pretty thorough with santizing including the spigot threads. I remove the spigot each time. As for the smell, I say it's vinegar smell. Maybe it could be cider as I have never had cider Several people tried it last night and all said vinegar. It fermented 2 weeks and was in the bottle 3 weeks. I can't believe it need longer..It should have tasted better. Bottled 2nd batch today so I will see around April 1 if I have a repeat. Again, thanks for all the comments.

 

[Golddiggie]

Might have been better to leave it on the yeast an extra week or two.

When you pull the bung out of the carboy, do you place it on a sanitized towel/paper towel (I soak it in StarSan and let the bung, and airlock, stand on it)? I also dip the entire assembly (bung and airlock) in the StarSan bucket, get the extra off the bottom, and then put it back into the hole... If the bung is going to be off the carboy for more than a minute, I place another sanitizer soaked paper towel over it... Couple seconds extra effort to ensure nothing bad falls in...

 

[coryforsenate]

You probably have contamination from acetobacter. Beware flies, as some of them carry this bacteria. It converts alcohol into acetic acid (vinegar).

 

[plaidpaint]

Does your fermenter have a spigot on it? My Cooper's FV does (the bottling wand attaches directly to it). It has to be removed every time,cleaned,& sanitized. And the threads in the fermenter as well. Mine smelled like old beer even after washing with PBW & a folded paper towel. Cleaned the threads & tap.

Second this, but also check inside the body of the spigot. If it's the one that comes with the Cooper's fv, then it's made up of a cylinder that rotates inside another cylinder. I had a problem with one of these, where something took up residence in the space between the two. Nothing seemed to shift it until I actually took the spigot apart and cleaned it.

This isn't particularly easy, but it can be done. The best way I found is to turn the spigot to halfway open (or halfway closed ), and put something like the handle of a wooden spoon inside the body of the valve. The next step is to hold the body of the valve, and sharply smack the the other end of the spoon against something sturdy. Don't dent your countertop. If you do it right, the main part of the valve will end up in your hand, and the inner part will be hanging on the end of the spoon.

If you do this every time, you can be assured that it's clean, but it will start to leak eventually. Try to find a replacement that's easier to clean.

 

[unionrdr]

I've read on the Cooper's forum that some use a baby bottle nipple brush to get in there to clean it. I used a rolled paper towel soaked in PBW to clean it. Then soak in sanitizer.

 

[BigBlueDog]

A couple of other suggestions I haven't seen expressly mentioned. Since Star San is a "contact" sanitizer, it needs to be in contact with the surface for some period of time to do its thing. I've seen anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 minutes quoted as the required time of contact. It's fine to completely wet the surface of something like a fermenter and let it drain back into a bucket.

For tools like spoons, siphons, tubing, etc., I use a long wall paper wetting tray so I can fully immerse the equipment until use. When I make up a batch of Star San, I put a quart or so in a spray bottle that I have dedicated solely for that purpose. Makes it much easier if you can spray down the surface of things as you're going through your process.

 

[pjtracer]

It sounds like I have a sanitizing issue which surprises me. I think I am very particular with the Starsan. It sure sounds like acetobacter

 

[theredben]

Are you sure it is just not "cidery"? Acetobacter is a nasty little bugger, but it requires oxygen, which fermented beer that has an airlock is very low in, so you should not be seing it with normal brewing techniques and some sanitizer. I would also be suprised if you got it on your first and second batch. Since it grows in the presence of oxygen, it seems to usually be a result of not cleaning properly after finishing a batch. Starting with fresh equipment stops that sort of contamination.

I would go buy some cider and see if that tastes similar. When you add large amounts of sugar (like in the coopers/muntons kits) it is very common to notice a "cidery" taste in the finished product. Using all LME, or DME, will fix that permanently.

 

[brewit2it]

It sounds like I have a sanitizing issue which surprises me. I think I am very particular with the Starsan. It sure sounds like acetobacter

It could be but it sounds like you have been pretty diligent with your technique which makes it a lot less likely. Have you ever had homebrew before tasting yours? There is 100 threads in the last month alone where first time brewers come on and say their beer tastes "sour".

It's certainly possible you have an infection but my guess if you have a green beer from a suboptimal kit (extract twang anyone?) with lots of adjuncts, plus there is the taste of yeast which can be quite sour.

In general homebrew, especially extract/sugar kits tastes like homebrew and the art of improving your technique is to make beer that does not taste like homebrew. Read about extract twang.

 

[andrew300]

I agree. It is fairly dificult to get an infection if you make sure you sanitize everything before use. Try a kit from austinhomebrew.com or northernbrewer.com and see how it comes out.