Beer line length

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MikeSkril

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Hi,

I will use a glycol cooled beer line from basement to kitchen. I wanna use this trunk line (1/4 beer lines).

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The difference in height will be 8’. I plan to use 15’ from keg to shank.
Will that be enough?

Thanks
 
[EDIT] Nvm, may not be enough, forgot you were using 1/4 ID lines. The calculator I linked says you'd need about 37 feet. Does that product come in a 3/16 version?

I saw only 1/4 lines. I guess I will end up building my own trunk line.

I don't want to have 4 37 feet lines to go up 8'. :)

Would a 3/16 line be too long...lets say about 12 feet?
 
I saw only 1/4 lines. I guess I will end up building my own trunk line.

I don't want to have 4 37 feet lines to go up 8'. :)

Would a 3/16 line be too long...lets say about 12 feet?

That depends on a couple factors. It may still be too long, play around with the calculator I linked before. If it were my system it looks like I'd want somewhere around 10' of line.

*My keg line experience is limited, maybe someone can jump in here.
 
Playing around with that calculator that thekraken linked you to, and referencing the carbonation/temperature table on the same page...

It looks like you could pull it off with 12' lines at 3/16" diameter, but there'd be trade-offs.

To pull it off in that kind of line length and that vertical run, you'd need to crank your pressure up to about 17PSI. And, in order to keep 17PSI at an average carbonation level for most ales, you'd need to keep your kegerator then at a temp of about 47F - which may be too warm for your pallet. (I prefer mine around 40F, personally.)

On the flipside:

If you really want to go with this pre-made trunk line, you can pull it off, again with a trade-off (in the opposite direction).

Drop your pressure to 7PSI, and a 12' run with 8' vertical becomes viable. Keep the kegerator set to 35F (a little on the cool side, but probably more palatable than the alternative) and you're back into ale carbonation territory.
 
Mfg lists the restriction as 0.30 lbs/ft. An 8' rise will drop about 4 lbs, so if you have 12 psi you will need to drop about 12 psi - 4 psi = 8 psi with the beer line length. So, line length needs to be about 8 / 0.3 = 26 - 27 ft.

The calculator linked above is for vinyl beer lines, but the GEN-X lines are nylon inner surface, so will have a different coefficient of friction than vinyl.

Brew on :mug:
 
Playing around with that calculator that thekraken linked you to, and referencing the carbonation/temperature table on the same page...

It looks like you could pull it off with 12' lines at 3/16" diameter, but there'd be trade-offs.

To pull it off in that kind of line length and that vertical run, you'd need to crank your pressure up to about 17PSI. And, in order to keep 17PSI at an average carbonation level for most ales, you'd need to keep your kegerator then at a temp of about 47F - which may be too warm for your pallet. (I prefer mine around 40F, personally.)

On the flipside:

If you really want to go with this pre-made trunk line, you can pull it off, again with a trade-off (in the opposite direction).

Drop your pressure to 7PSI, and a 12' run with 8' vertical becomes viable. Keep the kegerator set to 35F (a little on the cool side, but probably more palatable than the alternative) and you're back into ale carbonation territory.

The thing is I don't want a trade off situation. I will build that once and I'll build it right.
How can I make this vertical run keeping the right carbonation level? I don't know if there is another way, but I could also use beergas (25/75) which is available nearby.

I tried a few line calculators and every calculator is telling me another thing.

On beersmith:

resistance ratings 3/16″ ID Polyethylene tubing = 2.2 psi/ft

L = (keg_pressure – 1 – (Height/2)) / Resistance
L = (12 - 1 - (8/2))/2.2 = 3.6 feet

resistance ratings 1/4″ ID Micromatic tubing = 0.3 psi/ft

L = (keg_pressure – 1 – (Height/2)) / Resistance
L = (12 - 1 - (8/2))/0.3 = 23 feet
 
After a little more reading...

Correct me if I'm wrong.
  • I understand that a 3/16 line will not work as I would need to go up with the pressure and over carbonate the beer.
  • I could run a 15’ insulated trunk line (1/4) from tab to my fridge and connect that to a additional 10’ ¼ line. So I have a total of 25’ ¼ beerline. 15’ outside and 10’ inside the fridge. Would that work?
 
After a little more reading...

Correct me if I'm wrong.
  • I understand that a 3/16 line will not work as I would need to go up with the pressure and over carbonate the beer.
If you upped the pressure you would increase the fridge temperature to compensate.

  • I could run a 15’ insulated trunk line (1/4) from tab to my fridge and connect that to a additional 10’ ¼ line. So I have a total of 25’ ¼ beerline. 15’ outside and 10’ inside the fridge. Would that work?

Sounds reasonable. How and why are you splicing? Not sure if the additional friction would matter.

I think that no matter what you do you will have to fine tune it in the end.

[Edit] Is that $11.61/ft?
 
How and why are you splicing?

[Edit] Is that $11.61/ft?

Thats why! The trunk line is $11.61 a feet. Its for sure not more than 15' from the fridge to the tab. I don't want to run the additional 10' outside the fridge as that would be way more expensive.

On the other hand...can I fit 10' x 4 (4 kegs) in my fridge? Thats 40' of 1/4 tubing. :confused:
 
Again, playing around with that equation you have right there, and the resistance figures the vendor supplies for the tubing in the trunk line, it looks like you could get away with a 12.5' length of it if you maintained about 9PSI on your kegerator. At 9PSI, any temperature between 32F and 40F will be provide carbonation in the "normal" range (the colder, the more carbonated).

So, figure 12.5' of the trunk line, keep your kegerator (and whatever fluid you recirculate through the glycol line in the trunk line) at about 38, and you have what seems to be a pretty happy medium, giving you both good carbonation and good serving temperature.
 
I use 1/4 trunk line, my rise is around 10 feet. I have 27 feet and my psi is around 10-12 and have perfect flow. 15 will be too short. You will need 3-5 feet of 3/16 choker line. I had to step down from 1/4 to 3/16 to fit on my tower. I used dual barbs and okiler clamps. You could do the same in your kegerator to add some choker line. If you need to add it inline, you can split the trunk line, splice in your choker, use aluminum tape to reseal the lines, put the foam back and wrap with electrical tape. That is all the trunk line is.

What is your glycol chiller?
 
Thanks for the advice!

Why do I need “choker lines”? Can’t I just connect directly with ¼? I saw that there are 1/4 tailpieces.

As of for the glycol... I will use a normal fridge for the kegs, the glycol will be in the freezer compartment. I will use a pond pump to circulate the glycol.
 
Thanks for the advice!

Why do I need “choker lines”? Can’t I just connect directly with ¼? I saw that there are 1/4 tailpieces.

As of for the glycol... I will use a normal fridge for the kegs, the glycol will be in the freezer compartment. I will use a pond pump to circulate the glycol.

The choker can help with you flow. Since you need more resistance, you can add some smaller line to build the correct line balance

I need it to step down to attach the line to my stainless lines of my tower
 
Is there any downside in connecting the ¼ tubing directly to my tower? I would balance/adjust the line length on the keezer side.
 
Beer gas should help. We run into that at bars alot. Poor designed systems. Add restrictions to tower and use blended gas. Usually takes care of the problems
 
For the record, I got home today (now about 18 hours after pitching the dormant yeast) and my air lock was bubbling at the rate of about once a second, maybe a bit faster. Everything looks active and healthy. This is a great hobby - sure, there's a lot of finesse you can put into the process, but you sure can get away with a lot too.

I'll do some research on yeast starters though. That seems to be the way to go.

- doug
Not sure if you should go from smaller to larger or vice versus.

Thinking about it logically, larger to smaller sounds right, but I am not a fluid engineer, maybe it does not matter.
 
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