Beer is flat

[Longfella]

So I have currently just finished a beer American ipa kit. 7 days prior to bottling two days in a warm room. 14 days in a cold room. I opened the first bottle today. It looks more like an amber ale than a ipa and the first bottle was flat now fizz to it. When I bottled it I bottled it in plastic coopers bottled. With 1.5 cubes of cooper

I have two issues one is colour the other is the beer seems flat any advice would be great.

 

[VikeMan]

7 days prior to bottling two days in a warm room. 14 days in a cold room.

What does that mean? Can you lay this out step by step, with actual temperatures?

I have two issues one is colour the other is the beer seems flat any advice would be great.

Was this an extract kit? Liquid Malt Extract (and even Dry Malt Extract) tends to make darker wort/beer than all grain equivalent recipes. Dark beer can also be a sign of post fermentation oxidation.

 

[ncbrewer]

I'm not clear on your timetable. How long was it in bottles, warm? How long was it refrigerated after warm conditioning?

 

[Longfella]

Hi. It was bottled and left indoors at around 22-24c. Then 14 days in the garage at around 16c. After the two weeks I have refrigerated some of it and this was when I opened a bottle after 24 hours and this was the one that was dark and flat

it was a liquid malt extract kit.

 

[VikeMan]

Hi. It was bottled and left indoors at around 22-24c. Then 14 days in the garage at around 16c. After the two weeks I have refrigerated some of it and this was when I opened a bottle after 24 hours and this was the one that was dark and flat

Was the 22-24c for two days? If so, that's not long enough. And 16c is really too low for bottle carbonating. I mean, it might work given enough time, but not likely in 14 days.

 

[Longfella]

Yes I followed the kit and that was the instructions. Is there any way to bring it back now ?

 

[myndflyte]

Yes I followed the kit and that was the instructions. Is there any way to bring it back now ?

Yeah, just put the bottles someplace warmer. The yeast will wake back up and do their job.

 

[Longfella]

How long for? Is it not a carbonation issue ?

 

[VikeMan]

Yes I followed the kit and that was the instructions. Is there any way to bring it back now ?

The instructions say 22-24c for two days, then 16c for 14 days, then refrigerate? I can't think of any yeast strain where these would be good instruction. To bring it back, return it to 22c or so, and keep it there until it's carbonated.

 

[Longfella]

These are the instructions. Point 4. It doesn’t actually give temps but that is the rough temps

 

[VikeMan]

These are the instructions. Point 4. It doesn’t actually give temps but that is the rough temps

Truly awful instructions.

 

[Longfella]

How long will it need to be at 22c. How will I know that it is carbonated.
Once it has carbonated will it need to go back in the cold for a bit

 

[VikeMan]

How long will it need to be at 22c. How will I know that it is carbonated.
Once it has carbonated will it need to go back in the cold for a bit

You'll know it's carbonated when you open a bottle and pour it. If you want to minimize your risk of opening an under carbonated bottle, wait three weeks or so before trying one.

Whether you refrigerate the bottles later is up to you. They will stay fresher longer if you do.

 

[Longfella]

So obviously two days is bad advice how long would usually be good ? Is three weeks standard? Thanks for all the advice I’m very new to this.

 

[VikeMan]

So obviously two days is bad advice how long would usually be good ? Is three weeks standard? Thanks for all the advice I’m very new to this.

Many people report "full' carbonation in two weeks. And while this may be true in some cases, I think three is generally a safer bet. It really depends on things like how many healthy yeast cells are in the bottle, how much sugar has been added, the ABV of the beer, temperature, and the particular yeast strain.

 

[ncbrewer]

Whether you refrigerate the bottles later is up to you. They will stay fresher longer if you do.

Agreed - refrigerating after bottle conditioning should help keep them fresh. I don't have enough refrigerator space to keep the beer cold, so I just put them in one or two days ahead. As far as refrigerating them before drinking, they won't fully carb up warm. I haven't tried it, but CO2 is less soluble in warm beer than cold - some of the CO2 will stay in the head space rather than in the beer.

 

[Nubiwan]

Bit late in the process, but I might also give them bottles a good shake before putting them back some place warm. At least mix up the sediment if ther is any. How did they turn out?

 

[beerlife]

My rule of thumb for carbonation in bottles is 21 days at 21 degrees (celcius) some of my earlier ales I brewed was still flat after 16 or 17 days, but perfect at day 21.

 

[thehaze]

My experience with bottle carbonation differs from the experience and advice laid out in this thread - it could be attributed to luck maybe, but I'm not complaining. I've brewed around 110 batches. 100 were bottle conditioned and 10 kegged. Lowest ABV was 4.2 and highest ABV was 9.5%. I've never had a beer, that after 5-7 days in the bottle didn't have carbonation. This applies to even the higher ABV ones. They're of course not ready to drink after 5 days, but they have carbonation. I usually check beers at 3, 5 and 7 days to make sure beer is on the right path. At 3 days, the yeast would've have consumed some of the sugars and you would find strong signs of carbonation. For the carbonation to develop, you need at around 20C/68F - it can be 1,2 or 3 degrees less or more. Once carbonated - depending on style - you can move it to the fridge or a cooler room.

Pitching enough yeast - or pitching some at bottling ( never done it myself ) helps, along with adequate conditioning temperatures. Some yeast may take longer than others, and I had it happen twice, but carbonation was there after 7 days. 7 days was the longest I've waited for beer to carbonate in bottles, at which point I began thinking I've done something wrong. Just give it a bit more time at 20-22C.

Cheers!

 

[beerlife]

@thehaze ok. So let me also clarify my short answer, useless post above . I made beers using Kveik or Lallemand Windsor ale yeast. Fermentation completes in 3 to 4 days. I let it sit another day, bottled with some dextrose and fully carbonated 3 days later. That being said, the beers were made to be drinkable in a short time frame.. i.e lockdown where we cannot buy beer where I am. Full fermentation however is different. If I let me batch sit for 2 weeks in primary, then bottle priming with some dextrose, then I will have some carbonation going in 5 days easy.. but it does not remain, there is a hiss when opening, some head and a few bubbles, but the beer tastes flat. So it really does depend on the beer, the recipe and the priming.

I have never used yeast for priming however. I only brew full grain and never use sugars, other than Dextrose for priming, but in short, yes you are absolutely correct, in the last 3 weeks I brewed 3 types of beers from start to drinkable in less than 7 days... can also post some pics for you if interested.

 

[Nubiwan]

@thehaze ok. So let me also clarify my short answer, useless post above . I made beers using Kveik or Lallemand Windsor ale yeast. Fermentation completes in 3 to 4 days. I let it sit another day, bottled with some dextrose and fully carbonated 3 days later. That being said, the beers were made to be drinkable in a short time frame.. i.e lockdown where we cannot buy beer where I am. Full fermentation however is different. If I let me batch sit for 2 weeks in primary, then bottle priming with some dextrose, then I will have some carbonation going in 5 days easy.. but it does not remain, there is a hiss when opening, some head and a few bubbles, but the beer tastes flat. So it really does depend on the beer, the recipe and the priming.

I have never used yeast for priming however. I only brew full grain and never use sugars, other than Dextrose for priming, but in short, yes you are absolutely correct, in the last 3 weeks I brewed 3 types of beers from start to drinkable in less than 7 days... can also post some pics for you if interested.

The priming sugar makes use of residual yeast in your beer in order to carbonate. At least that is my layman's understanding Nobody adds yeast to prime. Just sugar.

The point being made by @thehaze is simply that many beers have plenty of carbonation at 7 days. In some batches I make, I find 1-3 beers that are just duds. They either volcano, or simply flat. Otherwise, its been consistent as long as process is followed.

As for the OP, it appears he never had his bottles in a warm enough place long enough to carbonate. Returning them to a warm place might reinvigorate yeast, as well as shaking them or turning the upside down a few times.

 

[beerlife]

@Nubiwan Thanks. Yes, I was not trying to contradict @thehaze , I was more clarifying my own post.

As for yeast in the bottles. Well, I have some fellow brewers who specifically use priming yeast. It is a neutral yeast simply to aid carbonation, but as I said, I personally do not do it.

Yes! the one or 2 flat beers in a batch I have also had numerous times, but that is mostly (not always) due to improper capping)

Finally, as for your last line, moving the beer to a warmer area is the idea, hence my 21 days at 21 degrees(celcius) statement

 

[VikeMan]

The priming sugar makes use of residual yeast in your beer in order to carbonate.

Other way around, actually. i.e. the residual yeast literally makes use of the priming sugar.

Nobody adds yeast to prime. Just sugar.

Sometimes "insurance" yeast is added to carbonate high ABV beers and/or beers that have spent a lot of time in a secondary. The idea being that there may not be enough healthy yeast left in suspension. Usually there are, but that's why it's "insurance."

 

[thehaze]

Yeast at bottling is not for priming. That was not at all what I said. Pitching 1-2 grams fresh yeast when bottling ensures that you have viable yeast to consume sugars and create carbonation. This is mostly aimed at high ABV beers, where after 2-3 weeks in primary, yeast could be " tired " and possibly create issues when carbonating. This is not an issue with forced carbonation. By adding yeast, you make sure you have viable yeast for beers, where yeast had to ferment a 9-10-11% beer.

At 5-7 days in the bottle, I had carbonation. Not a hiss and no small bubbles that quickly disappeared. I had proper carbonation every time. But as I said above, that does not mean beer is ready or it has reached its " potential ". Some styles require a bit of conditioning. Some do not. Experience will vary with each brewer and his/her overall process. My experience tells me that in two weeks you will definitely have carbonation, if everything was done and went right. But it's still a learning process throughout. For my beer and process, I would worry if beer wasn't carbonated after 7 days at 20-21C / 68-70F.

OP received some erroneous instructions with his kit, which made his experience incomplete and does not reflect how it should otherwise go. As for the colour, I assume the kit came with LME/DME. They usually have a tendency of coming out a bit darker, but there are definitely lighter coloured extracts, which you can buy and make yourself a " kit ", with your own chosen hops, yeast, etc.