Beer got darker in the bottle?

[hufcat05]

Hello all,

This question is about my first ever batch of beer. I'm so thrown by what I just saw because everything leading up to tasting this beer has been so promising.

I'm trying to brew a Spotted Cow (Farmhouse Cream Ale) Clone based on this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=80344

I had my brew day, put it in the fermenter and let it sit. It had 2 weeks at 65 degrees, and then 1 week at 68-70 for a diacetyl rest. I bottled it at 21 days and even tasted it. It honestly tasted to me exactly how I would expect a flat and room temperature spotted cow to taste.

So this is why I'm completely shocked. After 3 weeks in the bottles (2 weeks conditioning at 68-70 and 1 week in the fridge) I pulled one out to try it and it tasted nothing like spotted cow (very bread-like yeasty flavor) and it was much darker than going into the bottles.

Does anyone know why this could happen? For reference I'm posting three pictures.

Before Fermentation (clear pic on the counter)
After Fermentation (cloudy - like spotted cow should be, held up to the light)
In my glass after 3 weeks in the bottle - what in the world happened?

 

[PADave]

Does it taste like wet cardboard? When beer oxidizes it will get darker.

 

[hufcat05]

Haha, that's a fairly accurate description, I don't want to say yes just yet. I'll pull another one out when I get home from work and confirm.

Not sure where I would have let it oxidize though. It fermented in a plastic bucket, I opened it once on day 7 and again on day 14 to take a sample, and a third time on day 18 I cracked it a little bit to peak at the krausen.

Moved the bucket for bottling, slowly siphoned into bottling bucket and used a bottle filler attached to the spigot, all gentle and clean.

Does it taste like wet cardboard? When beer oxidizes it will get darker.

 

[Jwin]

It was probably done after 14 days
Plenty of o2 exposure then
Also, it will be Barker in a glass than in a hydrometer tube
If you want to watch your fermentation, get a carboy. Best to keep the lid on the bucket until your ready to bottle. Primary fermentation (excluding big beers) is done within a week. If your going to let it ride 3 weeks, no need for the extra exposure. You want to keep that co2 in the primary until you package. There's tons of info here on o2 exposure.
Congrats on your first batch. Learn from it. Cheers

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

Definitely oxidation. Some beers hold up better to it than others. Its easy to pick up in cream ales since they're so light. Do some homework on Cold Side Aeration and make necessary process tweaks with each batch. You'll figure out what works best for you if you stick with it.

 

[hufcat05]

It was probably done after 14 days
Plenty of o2 exposure then
Also, it will be Barker in a glass than in a hydrometer tube
If you want to watch your fermentation, get a carboy. Best to keep the lid on the bucket until your ready to bottle. Primary fermentation (excluding big beers) is done within a week. If your going to let it ride 3 weeks, no need for the extra exposure. You want to keep that co2 in the primary until you package. There's tons of info here on o2 exposure.
Congrats on your first batch. Learn from it. Cheers

I would argue that the beer is exposed to more oxygen during the bottling process than it was when I opened it quickly to get a sample. So far everything I've read has said that it doesn't hurt the beer to take a fast sample, or to have it exposed during bottling (since for a home brewer you really don't have any other choice BUT to leave it exposed while bottling).

Did I get something wrong here?

 

[hufcat05]

Definitely oxidation. Some beers hold up better to it than others. Its easy to pick up in cream ales since they're so light. Do some homework on Cold Side Aeration and make necessary process tweaks with each batch. You'll figure out what works best for you if you stick with it.

This research led me down an interesting path to hot side aeration: "Do not aerate your wort hot or cold unless it is just before pitching your yeast."

This was a partial mash recipe and I splashed that wort around going back and forth between my kettle, bottling bucket (for sparging), and back to the kettle.

Not sure how this would affect it so much only after the fermentation process though.

 

[VagueSkunk]

Have you sampled a different bottle from the same batch?

 

[Rockn_M]

Your first picture of hydrometer sample and what's in your glass seem to be very similar in color. Are you sure there is a problem?

Have you noticed any taste changes?

 

[ncbrewer]

I would argue that the beer is exposed to more oxygen during the bottling process than it was when I opened it quickly to get a sample. So far everything I've read has said that it doesn't hurt the beer to take a fast sample, or to have it exposed during bottling (since for a home brewer you really don't have any other choice BUT to leave it exposed while bottling).

Did I get something wrong here?

When you open the fermenter early, any oxygen that gets in stays for much longer, so it has longer to react with the beer. Lots of brewers take multiple samples, so I guess it's ok - but I avoid it.

 

[PADave]

When you open the fermenter early, any oxygen that gets in stays for much longer, so it has longer to react with the beer. Lots of brewers take multiple samples, so I guess it's ok - but I avoid it.

I'd agree with that. Once in the fermenter, the only time I open it up before bottling is to dry hop. I do 3 weeks in the primary, so I always take my chances and know that it will be done by then. The only FG reading I take is as I bottle.
Back about 15 brews ago I had one get oxidized and figured out it was from when I was bottling. Since then I changed my process, as well as being more aware of hot side aeration.

 

[hufcat05]

Have you sampled a different bottle from the same batch?

I will tonight in about an hour or so when I get home with the express point to determine if there is actually a wet cardboard flavor. My initial impression was bread/yeast, so we'll see tonight.

Your first picture of hydrometer sample and what's in your glass seem to be very similar in color. Are you sure there is a problem?

Have you noticed any taste changes?

It does seem that way, but it's also up against a dark background. The first picture before fermentation it had a nice light gold color in person. In person, while looking at it in the glass, the beer was definitely brown, no gold left whatsoever. There was a definite taste change between pre-bottling and now. It had a nice cream ale flavor with a light fruitiness in the finish (which is what you want from this recipe).

Now it tastes more like yeast/bread, but I will confirm that again tonight. I'll have a couple of these just to be sure

 

[hufcat05]

Okay, I'm on my second one tonight. I pulled one from the group that conditioned 2 weeks at room temp and then 1 week in the fridge. My second one is from a different group that spent 2 weeks at room temp and then one week on the closet around 60 degrees. They both appear the same color as the first.
The first one most tasted like bread/yeast... I guess if I really try hard I can maybe taste cardboard, but it's not obvious.
The second one tastes a little less yeasty, and no obvious cardboard. Not sure if this disproves oxygenation, but that's where I'm at.

Here's a pic of the beer tonight.

 

[PADave]

Let a few sit for a while, it'll only get worse over time. Otherwise, I'd drink the rest asap.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

If you want an interesting read on oxidation and the phases beer goes through as it stales then check this out.... https://www.morebeer.com/articles/oxidation_in_beer

I think its a worthy read for anyone that loves beer

 

[Gauthier]

Hello, ive got the same issue on my first beer ... Did your beer get worse overtime ?

 

[thehaze]

The hydrometer sample and the glass, look similar. Hazy beer will always give off the impression it is lighter in colour. I think whatever recipe you followed + process + malts used, etc. simply made a darker beer than intended. Cream Ales should be very light in colour, like 2.5 - 3 SRM, but Spotted Cow is a Farmhouse Ale, at least this is what the brewery calls it. And it looks like a WitBier, more or less.

Such beers do not need so many days in the fermenter. Opening the fermenter so many times just to take samples and peak at the beer, is not a good practice, as you expose the beer to O2, and that shortens your beer's life and will dull aroma and flavour. If it's good now, then you should enjoy it. If you wish to find out if it was oxidation and how long will the beer still be good, hide a couple of bottles for 6-12 months. Open 1 bottle at 6 months and then one at 12 months.

 

[mcmeador]

From what I’ve read (mostly on these boards), it is not that easy to oxidize your beer, and its effects will mostly be seen after long storage and not in the short timeframe you’re talking about.

If you’re tasting a yeasty flavor, that may mellow out and disappear with more time in the bottles. It may just be “green.”

 

[mcmeador]

Also, I was just thinking about your color. As someone mentioned, the first and third pictures don’t look terribly different. The beer around the hydrometer looks about the same color as the beer in the glass in the third picture. Beer will appear lighter when yeast is in suspension, and that is very evident in your second picture.

With the next bottle you open, try pouring the first bit into your hydrometer tube and then the rest in a glass, and be careful not to stir up the sediment at the bottom. Then compare the color of the same bottle of beer in two different containers. See if you notice that it appears darker in the glass than in the thin tube, which I suspect you might.

Either way, don’t panic and assume the worst. Don’t start pounding down the beers trying to beat the effects of oxidation which by your account of your processes sounds unlikely. Give it a little more time to condition and for the yeast in the bottles to fall out of suspension, and I suspect that yeasty flavor may fall out with it. As the saying in the homebrew community goes: “Relax. Don’t worry. And have a homebrew.”

 

[mcmeador]

Here’s an experiment I did with a commercial beer poured from the same can into a pint glass and a shot glass. The beer definitely does appear lighter in the narrower shot glass.

 

[Kickass]

From what I’ve read (mostly on these boards), it is not that easy to oxidize your beer,

Oxidation is the new buzz word, especially with NEIPA’s. The affects of it manifest differently based on the style and exposure but I think the common theme right now is that oxidation is real and easily happens.

How much malt extract did your recipe use? Extract beers, even more so, liquid extract beers, are notoriously dark. I brewed extract for 8 years and could not get light colored beers to save my life.

 

[mattdee1]

In my experience, the "effects of oxidation being different based on style" rings true. When I do amber ales and porters (for example) I don't feel like it's a big issue, as long as I consume the beer within a reasonable time (a few months).

Speaking from direct experience, the very first casualty of oxygen intrusion seems to be hop aroma, with the devastation being greater the later the hops are added (i.e., dry hops are first in the line of fire). If this is the case then it makes sense that NEIPA would be disproportionately affected since late hops are a defining design feature of that style.

Somebody in my local homebrew group posted pictures of a recent NEIPA that looked like an amber ale in the photo despite having a grain bill composed 100% of light/pale malts. I have never seen that bad of a color change before. He said he doesn't take any special measures for avoiding oxygen during packaging, so for me, this type of "evidence" - anecdotal as it may be - is pretty compelling as to the impacts of oxidation. The beer in question was quite new as well, so the damage gets done quite quickly. In other words, at least for delicate hop styles like NEIPA, the only real path to better results is to implement measures for oxygen avoidance. We don't even have the luxury of saying "I won't worry about oxygen, I'll just make sure I drink the batch quickly before it has a chance to deteriorate" because this damage happens extremely quickly - as in, the very first pints pulled are dead already.

 

[Kickass]

I’m curious to hear how much LME is being used. That’s almost always the guilty culprit in with the “why is my light beer so dark” question.