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Beer going flat on Gas\Nitro

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TheInnKeeper

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Recently started using Beergas(I don't know the ratio) for pushing my kegs(instead of c02), I can get really really nice pours with ZERO line length but @ 15psi it seems like my beer is going flat pretty quickly :-(

This is new to me, am I doing something wrong, any tips?
 

Tom R

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I'm not running beer gas (yet), but I thought the dispensing pressure was much higher than CO2, something like 30-35PSI?
 
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TheInnKeeper

TheInnKeeper

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I'm not running beer gas (yet), but I thought the dispensing pressure was much higher than CO2, something like 30-35PSI?
Good question

I thought that was only if your running a stout tap?

Also I'm @ 7350' of elevation if that makes a difference?

Thanks!
 

Tom R

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Oh, I figured you were using a stout faucet.
I don't know how to make your configuration work.

PS: That's crazy high altitude! I think I'd have a one beer limit that high up!
 

day_trippr

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If the OP is not using an actual stout faucet - with its restrictor plate that helps the creamy magic happen - I don't see the point of using beer gas, pretty much exactly for the issue being experienced.

Using a conventional faucet forces the dispensing pressure down to essentially that used to push any random beer through a similar faucet - ie, down in the 10-12 psi - range - which results in a CO2 partial pressure too low to maintain the carbonation level as the head space expands. All at no real benefit, because simply put, nitrogen does not dissolve in beer to a functional level, so a pour is going to look like any pale ale, only with less head (if any).

Beer gas and stout faucets work together to produce the desired effect. Separated they're each kinda useless...

Cheers!
 

jack13

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You mentioned you're using the beergas to push the beer. Is this after carbing with CO2?

No idea about the elevation, but my understanding is that the PSI read by your gauge would be relative to atmospheric/ambient pressure. So I'd think your 15 PSI is not as much pressure as MY PSI (at close to sea level). Super quick Google tells me your atmospheric pressure is 4 PSI less than mine (all else being equal, of course, so this is very rough).
 

jack13

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If the OP is not using an actual stout faucet - with its restrictor plate that helps the creamy magic happen - I don't see the point of using beer gas, pretty much exactly for the issue being experienced.

Using a conventional faucet forces the dispensing pressure down to essentially that used to push any random beer through a similar faucet - ie, down in the 10-12 psi - range - which results in a CO2 partial pressure too low to maintain the carbonation level as the head space expands. All at no real benefit, because simply put, nitrogen does not dissolve in beer to a functional level, so a pour is going to look like any pale ale, only with less head (if any).

Beer gas and stout faucets work together to produce the desired effect. Separated they're each kinda useless...

Cheers!
...and I'd think, even if it wasn't already carbed, using beergas would result in no carbonation. But even if you first carbed with CO2, then switched to beergas just to push it, it would still start to give up some of the CO2.

Regardles, yes, unless for some reason you have access to cheap beergas (but not to cheap CO2), I see no advantage to using it to push beer.
 

day_trippr

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Generally one can assume a stout will come out at the end of fermentation with between 0.6 and 0.8 volumes of CO2. If dispensing with beer gas, that's not far from the desired ~1.2 volumes of CO2 that allows a nice cascade and a maintainable carbonation level using a stout faucet and 70/30 beer gas at ~35 psi. Which describes my setup. If I carb higher than that the pour quality goes down with increased foam...

Cheers!
 
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TheInnKeeper

TheInnKeeper

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Yes I am carbing with co2 only DRIVING the keg with the beer gas, I LOVE the results the first few days but then it starts to go flat :-(

I got the beergas tank full and free, it allows me to mount my taps DIRECTLY on my keg with zero line length(flow control taps) and pour without foaming issues.

The only draw back is my kegs are now going flat, all I brew is ales.......should I just move over to all stout taps?

Do I need to increase the pressure of my beer gas up from 15psi?

I'd really like to find a way to make this work because when it is working it works great and for me refilling the beergas tank is no big deal.

Thanks in advance!
 

jack13

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I'm not quite getting why the beergas allows you to hook tap right up to keg with no foaming issues but CO2 does not. Have you tried turning the CO2 down to levels you'd intuitiviely think are way too low?

Actually, I be others can help you with that more.

I'll just say this:

Getting the beergas tank full and free is awesome, but in the long term CO2 is still going to be cheaper. CO2 is a minor expense in the scheme of homebrewing, in my experience. I would not do all stout taps. Perhaps one stout tap hooked up to Nitro and the rest CO2?
 
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TheInnKeeper

TheInnKeeper

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I'm not quite getting why the beergas allows you to hook tap right up to keg with no foaming issues but CO2 does not. Have you tried turning the CO2 down to levels you'd intuitiviely think are way too low?

Actually, I be others can help you with that more.

I'll just say this:

Getting the beergas tank full and free is awesome, but in the long term CO2 is still going to be cheaper. CO2 is a minor expense in the scheme of homebrewing, in my experience. I would not do all stout taps. Perhaps one stout tap hooked up to Nitro and the rest CO2?
I was told by several people(with BG experience serving at big parties) that using BG would resolve my foaming issues as a result of having zero line length tap lines, I didn't believe them but when I tried it actually worked.

I'm running the beergas at the same pressure as I was running the cO2(15psi)

I plan to do porters\stouts in the future so I'll for sure keep the BG setup but I guess I was just hoping to figure out a way to make it work........being in Utah its extremely difficult to find a beer on nitro tap and impossible to find anything great than 5% on tap regardless of cO2 Vs BG because of crazy state laws.
 

jack13

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Interesting. Sorry to go back to this same thing again, but 15 PSI seems pretty high for tapping right into the keg. Have you tried like 5?

There's not a whole lot on nitro around here, either. I'm not a HUGE fan, but enough of one to do Nitro on one of my (6) taps. It's really cool, but I have never felt a desire to add a second. Nor do I, or guests, drink those any more often than the CO2 beers.

But what's your setup that you put taps right into the kegs as your regular method of serving?
 

Bobby_M

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There is no scientific basis for why beer gas would not require a balanced line and still be foam free. If anything, it's exactly the opposite because it's the pouring pressure that causes foaming (carbonation level being equal) and beer gas would require a higher pressure to maintain carbonation. Since you don't know what you have, it may be 100% nitro, 70/30, 75/25 or who knows.

If 15 psi pouring pressure with zero line length doesn't cause foaming, it's because the beer is undercarbonated. It would still be shooting out like a firehose, just with less head being created.
 

crazyjake19

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Other than the free tank, there's no reason to be using beer gas here. Especially if you have flow control faucets mounted to your kegs.

The point of beer gas is to be able to utilize higher pressures while not over-carbonating your beer. Stouts through a nitrogen faucet being one example, but beer gas is also common in commercial venues with very long line lengths. If a bar needed to set their CO2 to 40 psi (just an example) to overcome line losses in pressure, the beer would be way overcarbed. 40 psi of beer gas (75% N, 25% CO2) would allow the pressure to overcome the losses within the long line, yet not overcarb the beer (10psi of 40psi for keeping beer carbonated). I'm sure the math may not work out exactly that way, but 15psi of a 75/25 beer gas means your essentially hooking the keg up to 3.75psi of CO2 (the rest being nitrogen), and as your well-carbed beer in draw off, you have less CO2 entering to maintain that level of carbonation.
 

RolandD

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I'm sure the math may not work out exactly that way, but 15psi of a 75/25 beer gas means your essentially hooking the keg up to 3.75psi of CO2 (the rest being nitrogen), and as your well-carbed beer in draw off, you have less CO2 entering to maintain that level of carbonation.
This, right here is the correct answer!
 
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