# Beer from my keg is flat

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#### doug293cz

##### BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot
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Sorry, I meant with beer. And if I put too much beer in that reduces headspace. If it requires a certain amount of headspace to carbonate properly this could be part of it, though not all, I assume.
Final level of carbonation doesn't care about the amount of headspace, but depending on the headspace geometry, the rate of carbonation may be affected. If you fill the beer higher than the constant diameter portion of the keg, the surface area of the beer which can absorb CO2 starts to rapidly diminish, and less area means a slower rate of CO2 absorption.

Brew on

#### balrog

##### Supporting Member
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I was going to say, you don't need any headspace to carbonate, but you'd need a lot more time if the only surface are for absorption were the diameter of the GAS IN port/tube/line.

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#### Christoff

##### Well-Known Member
Final level of carbonation doesn't care about the amount of headspace, but depending on the headspace geometry, the rate of carbonation may be affected. If you fill the beer higher than the constant diameter portion of the keg, the surface area of the beer which can absorb CO2 starts to rapidly diminish, and less area means a slower rate of CO2 absorption.

Brew on
That makes sense. Thanks

#### DuncB

##### Well-Known Member
The bulb is 74 g
That's an unusual size, what physical dimensions is it? It only looks about 3 inches long in the photo and max one inch wide.
But there is a parallax effect going on.
The nearest to 74g I found on line was an 88g one that was

• Length: 176mm
• Width: 35.2mm
• Neck Length: 24.3mm
• Neck Width: 16mm
• Thread: M16 x 1.5 Not sure this thread would fit the mini regulator normally it's a
also said not food safe and was from hungary.

Found one that is 16g of CO2

Total weight 58gm. Size 88.6mm x 21.9mm

I have noted that you mention it is at 20 psi once half drunk this again changes the criteria on the calculators and would mean more foam given your short line ( ie straight to tap).

#### DuncB

##### Well-Known Member
Thanks @doug293cz

Can I give myself a B grade?

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#### Christoff

##### Well-Known Member
That's an unusual size, what physical dimensions is it? It only looks about 3 inches long in the photo and max one inch wide.
But there is a parallax effect going on.
The nearest to 74g I found on line was an 88g one that was

• Length: 176mm
• Width: 35.2mm
• Neck Length: 24.3mm
• Neck Width: 16mm
• Thread: M16 x 1.5 Not sure this thread would fit the mini regulator normally it's a
also said not food safe and was from hungary.

Found one that is 16g of CO2

Total weight 58gm. Size 88.6mm x 21.9mm

I have noted that you mention it is at 20 psi once half drunk this again changes the criteria on the calculators and would mean more foam given your short line ( ie straight to tap).
It came with the kit from NB (see pic).

I cranked it up to 20 psi after I took it to a friends place and served them flattish beer (about a month, month and a half ago). I figured it may have needed more CO2 but when I had a beer the other day (the beer that prompted this post) same thing, arguably worse. Lots of foam at first (had to wait it out to finish filling the glass) and upon my first or second sip, almost totally flat.

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#### DuncB

##### Well-Known Member
"arguably worse. Lots of foam at first (had to wait it out to finish filling the glass) and upon my first or second sip, almost totally flat."

This confirms your beer has carbonated.

It is overcarbonated for the delivery method you have.

You need a long piece of tubing dictated by the calculators mentioned earlier by @doug293cz and in my workings ( based on 12 and 15 psi ) but for 20 psi and the temperature you are serving at.

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#### Christoff

##### Well-Known Member
"arguably worse. Lots of foam at first (had to wait it out to finish filling the glass) and upon my first or second sip, almost totally flat."

This confirms your beer has carbonated.

It is overcarbonated for the delivery method you have.

You need a long piece of tubing dictated by the calculators mentioned earlier by @doug293cz and in my workings ( based on 12 and 15 psi ) but for 20 psi and the temperature you are serving at.
I reduced the beer from 20 PSI to serve, that was just the pressure I attempted to carbonate at.

Forgive me if this is like beating a dead horse. So if I understand this correctly, I either need to add one of those picnic lines/taps to the keg so there is sufficient line, or I need to change something in the current set up. I bought this mini keg set up for its compact nature and did not read anything online about the tap being an issue connected to the lid. NB does not think this is either. If I understand your post, and others, I have to adjust the temp and psi to work with the current set up. I am just not sure how to adjust the current set up's temp and PSI so I don't have to drink flat beer from it.

#### ba-brewer

##### I'm not Zog, I'm Leroi
HBT Supporter
@Christoff is this same setup that you have?
Complete 1 Gallon Mini Keg System

There is a video for that product showing it pouring correctly, have you reached out to NB to see what they say or how to get a proper pour?

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#### Christoff

##### Well-Known Member
@Christoff is this same setup that you have?
Complete 1 Gallon Mini Keg System

There is a video for that product showing it pouring correctly, have you reached out to NB to see what they say or how to get a proper pour?
I have found NB to be totally useless in getting help. I originally reached out to the after my first unsuccessful carbonation attempt, I followed their instructions to a T, and still had the same thing happen. They eventually told me they have found metal shards get stuck in the gasket(?) and this could contribute to it, but I haven't had a chance to check because there is still beer in there, (hence part of why i think a leak may be contributing to an inability for the CO2 to dissolve into the beer). Upon a second conversation the customer service was terrible. I'd rather have the keg collect dust than deal with them again (I've also had several other issues with the other two orders I have made so I am not impressed).

#### ba-brewer

##### I'm not Zog, I'm Leroi
HBT Supporter
I have found NB to be totally useless in getting help. I originally reached out to the after my first unsuccessful carbonation attempt, I followed their instructions to a T, and still had the same thing happen. They eventually told me they have found metal shards get stuck in the gasket(?) and this could contribute to it, but I haven't had a chance to check because there is still beer in there, (hence part of why i think a leak may be contributing to an inability for the CO2 to dissolve into the beer). Upon a second conversation the customer service was terrible. I'd rather have the keg collect dust than deal with them again (I've also had several other issues with the other two orders I have made so I am not impressed).

I would assume that lid has some sort of flow restriction built in to allow it to work like they show in the product video. As painful as it is to deal with their customer support I would push back on them again for more information on how to get the tap to work or what they were doing to get a decent pour in the video. Tell them you want your money back that might help.

If you questioning if the beer is truly carbonated depressurize the keg, remove the lid and pour some into a glass to see if the beer is carbonated. With the lid off you can inspect the o-rings and the tap to see if there are any issues.

I think I read where people would drop the pressure to serve beer from foamy kegs. Have you tried dropping the pressure?

Might be helpful to have a pressure gauge on a disconnect so you can confirm the pressures being applied to the keg. Maybe the gauge on the regulator is faulty.

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#### Christoff

##### Well-Known Member
If you questioning if the beer is truly carbonated depressurize the keg, remove the lid and pour some into a glass to see if the beer is carbonated. With the lid off you can inspect the o-rings and the tap to see if there are any issues.
That’s a good idea. Not sure why I didn’t think of it.
I think I read where people would drop the pressure to serve beer from foamy kegs. Have you tried dropping the pressure?
Yeah. I drop it to apx 10 psi before serving.
Might be helpful to have a pressure gauge on a disconnect so you can confirm the pressures being applied to the keg. Maybe the gauge on the regulator is faulty.
Another good idea. It’s on a ball lock so maybe I’ll just connect it to my Keezer regulator and see.

NB did make a rather large gesture to offset the inconvenience of the issue. In my irritation I probably should have just had them replace it but I wasn’t giving myself enough credit that I actually had a rough idea of what I was doing. They sent me a ball lock lid so I could at least connect it to my Keezer, but I’d much prefer to use it for the purpose I bought it (mobile beer drinking). I figured it was me to a degree and I’ll eventually figure it out but I’m thinking that may not be the case anymore. Particularly with all the info from this post.

#### DuncB

##### Well-Known Member
If you had a leak the gas bulb would have emptied over those few weeks.
The pressure would drop on the gauge and read zero over time. Many people lose lb of gas without knowing it when they have a leak.
If you have another pressure gauge put that on the gas post, use the PRV to drop pressure to 5 psi.
Wait a while then use PRV again to drop pressure and repeat until pressur doesn't rise above 5 after a vent and wait.
Then reattach regulator set at 5 psi and try a pour, ensuring keg kept in fridge during this process.
You will find that there is less foam and the beer will seem fizzier.

#### DuncB

##### Well-Known Member
"If you questioning if the beer is truly carbonated depressurize the keg, remove the lid and pour some into a glass to see if the beer is carbonated. "

"That’s a good idea. Not sure why I didn’t think of it."

@Christoff you didn't need to think of it l suggested this in post 17.
If you thought of your minikeg as a large beer bottle and unscrewed the top and poured the beer it would probably pour like a beer out of a bottle and be fine.

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#### Christoff

##### Well-Known Member
"If you questioning if the beer is truly carbonated depressurize the keg, remove the lid and pour some into a glass to see if the beer is carbonated. "

"That’s a good idea. Not sure why I didn’t think of it."

@Christoff you didn't need to think of it l suggested this in post 17.
Ha so you did

#### Beermeister32

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
I got tired of using the mini regulators, I could not get them to stop leaking. I ended up using a standard regulator.

Best performance I’ve had is to naturally carbonate in the keg, then use a large 88-95 gram cartridge to push.

Cartridge lasts, I had one keg over 6 months on one cartridge.

#### balrog

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Yeah. I drop it to apx 10 psi before serving.
I have a little Ukeg or something. Same idea. 64oz beer, CO2 cartridge, no line length. I carefully decant carbed beer from keg into this, turn it to 10psi to carry to tennis, play (sorta) tennis, ****THEN I TURN THE FVCKER DOWN TO NOTHING PSI*** and serve.

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#### Christoff

##### Well-Known Member
I have a little Ukeg or something. Same idea. 64oz beer, CO2 cartridge, no line length. I carefully decant carbed beer from keg into this, turn it to 10psi to carry to tennis, play (sorta) tennis, ****THEN I TURN THE FVCKER DOWN TO NOTHING PSI*** and serve.
It’s like the Hash. Drinkers with a run of problem (Google it. It’s amazing)

Thanks. I may start just turning it down all together

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#### Christoff

##### Well-Known Member
I got tired of using the mini regulators, I could not get them to stop leaking. I ended up using a standard regulator.

Best performance I’ve had is to naturally carbonate in the keg, then use a large 88-95 gram cartridge to push.

Cartridge lasts, I had one keg over 6 months on one cartridge.

View attachment 809492 View attachment 809493
Thanks a lot. Those pics are great. It’s too bad if I have to replace equipment but reading online it sounds like you aren’t the only one with a leaky mini reg

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#### Christoff

##### Well-Known Member
Just figured I would send you all a shout out. My kegging got a lot easier with your help. Turns out I was (mostly) doing things right, with your help I improved it, and that darn mini keg had a piece of metal under the o-ring and I had a bad gasket. Thanks again for the help!

#### bracconiere

##### Jolly Alcoholic
HBT Supporter
Just figured I would send you all a shout out. My kegging got a lot easier with your help. Turns out I was (mostly) doing things right, with your help I improved it, and that darn mini keg had a piece of metal under the o-ring and I had a bad gasket. Thanks again for the help!

(i'm going to use that smiley as a joke for your foam issues.... )

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#### Christoff

##### Well-Known Member

(i'm going to use that smiley as a joke for your foam issues.... )
Ha!

#### bracconiere

##### Jolly Alcoholic
HBT Supporter

just remember if you do get a half full glass of foam, again. now that the problem is fixed...you can always wait for the head to coagulate down a bit, fill it back up, and get a cool pic for what are you drinking now like this....

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#### Christoff

##### Well-Known Member
just remember if you do get a half full glass of foam, again. now that the problem is fixed...you can always wait for the head to coagulate down a bit, fill it back up, and get a cool pic for what are you drinking now like this....

View attachment 812027
Well it’s not quite the same but I do have one of these (apparently this is what happens when you forget the priming sugar in your wit and mistakingly double up by putting it in the by brown). I can’t even blame being new on this one

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#### bracconiere

##### Jolly Alcoholic
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you're the king, got me beat! lol

#### balrog

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
just remember if you do get a half full glass of foam, again. now that the problem is fixed...you can always wait for the head to coagulate down a bit, fill it back up, and get a cool pic for what are you drinking now like this....

View attachment 812027

Dude!
A nice damp towel would do wonders for the wall in the background.

#### Clint Yeastwood

##### Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Kegland claims its plastic flow control disconnects will let you put a faucet right up against the keg.

#### balrog

##### Supporting Member
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Kegland claims its plastic flow control disconnects will let you put a faucet right up against the keg.
I do it all the time.

#### bracconiere

##### Jolly Alcoholic
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Dude!
A nice damp towel would do wonders for the wall in the background.

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#### Christoff

##### Well-Known Member
you're the king, got me beat! lol
I have to admit, it got amusing my the third 22 oz bottle. Trying to catch the flow so we could actually drink it was an event all by itself. Sucked too, because this was actually decent beer!

#### bracconiere

##### Jolly Alcoholic
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I have to admit, it got amusing my the third 22 oz bottle. Trying to catch the flow so we could actually drink it was an event all by itself. Sucked too, because this was actually decent beer!

crack the caps slowly? just let some pressure out slowly....and i think making sure there damn near ice cold would help too?

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#### Christoff

##### Well-Known Member
crack the caps slowly? just let some pressure out slowly....and i think making sure there damn near ice cold would help too?
I tried the slow crack on the cap. The foam just forced its way through. I didn't try the ice cold thing. They were closer to dark ale serving temps so maybe that helped the geizer really go. lol

#### bracconiere

##### Jolly Alcoholic
HBT Supporter
I tried the slow crack on the cap. The foam just forced its way through.

someone else would have to chime in if that means infection or not....this isn't homemalt is it? and the malt was stored dry?

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#### Christoff

##### Well-Known Member
someone else would have to chime in if that means infection or not....this isn't homemalt is it? and the malt was stored dry?
Yup. It was only crushed a couple days before too. I didn't taste anything that would have hinted an infection. Prying the cap off slowly released some pressure but eventually it just started pushing its way through and overflowing. Didn't send the cap off, mind you I didn't wait to find out either. It was easier to catch in a bowl if I just let it soar. But that is interesting possibililty if it was an infection. It wasn't a particularly dark nut brown so I am guessing it would have left some room to detect. Everyone loved it. Well, the half of the beer we could actually catch

#### bracconiere

##### Jolly Alcoholic
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Yup. It was only crushed a couple days before too. I didn't taste anything that would have hinted an infection. Prying the cap off slowly released some pressure but eventually it just started pushing its way through and overflowing. Didn't send the cap off, mind you I didn't wait to find out either. It was easier to catch in a bowl if I just let it soar. But that is interesting possibililty if it was an infection. It wasn't a particularly dark nut brown so I am guessing it would have left some room to detect. Everyone loved it. Well, the half of the beer we could actually catch
you don't have bratty kids, or a vengeful wife? shakin' them up in the morning either, right?

#### IslandLizard

##### Progressive Brewing
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Well it’s not quite the same but I do have one of these (apparently this is what happens when you forget the priming sugar in your wit and mistakingly double up by putting it in the by brown). I can’t even blame being new on this one
You're very lucky they didn't/don't explode on you, especially when touching them. You need to get that extra pressure out, it's only a matter of time until they'll go boom!!!

Handle with care and wear a full face and eye shield and heavy long sleeved (welders) gloves handling them.

Do you reckon it's due to adding twice the amount of priming sugar or is it possible your beer wasn't quite done fermenting yet? An infection is also possible, but you can usually taste that (being sourish or funky).

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#### Christoff

##### Well-Known Member
you don't have bratty kids, or a vengeful wife? shakin' them up in the morning either, right?
Haha no kids and the wife is nicer than I am.

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#### Christoff

##### Well-Known Member
You're very lucky they didn't/don't explode on you, especially when touching them. You need to get that extra pressure out, it's only a matter of time until they'll go boom!!!

Handle with care and wear a full face and eye shield and heavy long sleeved (welders) gloves handling them.

Do you reckon it's due to adding twice the amount of priming sugar or is it possible your beer wasn't quite done fermenting yet? An infection is also possible, but you can usually taste that (being sourish or funky).
Yeah I know. After the initial 10 days at about 75 degrees, I store all my primed beer in their own cardboard boxes, in heavy duty storage bins, in a closet with nothing important. Once I discovered they were over primed I opened them all. I didn't want to take any chances. I wore safety glasses. I think it was from the double prime. I bottled them the same time as three other batches and the wit was flatter than some beer out of the fermenter. I figured that meant I mistakenly put the priming sugar for it into the nut brown. Makes sense given how explosive this beer was. There was no sign of infection as far as any of us have noticed. It fermented for roughly three weeks so I would be suprised if it hadn't finished fermenting.

#### balrog

##### Supporting Member
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Suggestion: take some of the now clearly overcarbed beer and capture some, stir it really well at room temp to get as much CO2 out of solution and take a gravity (SG) reading. If infected, it will have dropped much lower than the FG you measured at bottling time.

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