Beekeeping Resources

[Bush_84]

So I have been laid up for the last week, but it has given me time to research beekeeping. I think it's a good idea to share some things I've found with you guys as it's a very cheap alternative to buying it if you are willing to put the work in.

The first hurdle that I faced was the cost. I initially found that the hives themselves costs hundreds of dollars to buy. I found myself wishing I could build one myself. I found plans for Warre and Lang hives, which looked too complicated for my nub self. I then found plans for a Kenya Top Bar Hive.

http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/how-to-build-a-top-bar-hive/6288193

As long as you have the tools and the wood, this one is hella cheap. I priced the wood between 30-50 bucks depending on how fancy you want it. This model isn't made for being the most efficient honey producing, but mead makers aren't in it to make a ton. Just enough to make mead.

The next thing is to do some learning. There are a couple of forums that I found helpful. The first link is to a general beekeeping forum, but most people there use standard hives. It's still a good resource to learn about bees and ask questions. The second one is more of a natural methods website, but as it turns out the top bar hive is what most use. So it's a good forum to learn about top bar hives specifically.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/

http://www.biobees.com/forum/index.php

Also check out your library and googlebooks. I have found good reading material with both.

I just wanted to share what I have learned in case there was somebody else here who was interested in keeping bees. Maybe I could save others some cash and time.

I am by far not an expert (have really only studied thus far) but will try to help if there are questions.

 

[Erick]

I have tried the top bar hives and as a result, I would not recommend them in the higher latitudes. I lost all of the colonies over the winter.

I am not an expert either, but I have kept bees for several years now with modest success. Each year has been better than the last.

Beekeeping can be pricey to set up and it can be pricey to recover from a failure or loss.

 

[Bush_84]

I would definately advocate a lot of reading and learning from a mentor. It is very important to get involved with an association to ask questions and learn the area.

I have seen members on the biobees forum from Canada. So I would assume it's possible given the right technique.

 

[tweake]

hi, i'm a bee keeper in NZ.

one small bit of advice i highly recommend for beginners......
forget about doing any topbar, warre, organic etc etc for a while. stick to the plain old commercial gear and setup. one of the BIG problems we get is people are really keen on (for eg) organic and will only focus on being organic rather than the bees. this makes them lousy beekeepers and they often kill off most of the hives. not uncommon for them to spread disease to every one else because of their bad practises.

basically they are trying to run before they can walk. you need to learn to be a beekeeper first, so start off with plain old commercial setup. after a few seasons then look at the side of it that interests you. ie sell off commercial gear and go warre. point is to learn beekeeping, get some experience before doing the fancy stuff.
i would also recommend spend some time with commercial guys checking hives etc. you can get more experience in 30 minutes with a commercial guy than you will in years on your own. practice makes perfect so one season does not make you a beekeeper ! !

making your own gear is a good idea. firstly because of the unusable crap the manufactures flick off to the hobbyists. if your buying gear buy commercial gear or the high quality gear. expensive but its perfect. the cheap hobbyist gear usually requires repairs to make it usable (ads more cost) and beginners have no idea of all the little traps.

making your own means you control the quality. be vary away of tolerance stack up. a few mm out here and there can make it WAY out by the time you finish and it won't fit together. bee space is very important.

 

[WoodNeck]

+1 on commercial gear, taking a class, or buying a good beekeeping book.

Great way to have local honey, but bees are kinda needy....if they aren't happy they'll kill the queen, swarm down the street, and make sweet honey in your neighbors attic.

Bee-KEEPING

 

[tweake]

reminds me

or buying a good beekeeping book

is exactly right.
another problem we have is a lot of books around are out date, can have bad practices and are not even written for this country.
beekeeping is very localised. what works for one aera doesn't necessary work in another.

we had a bad case where a hobbyist poisoned a bunch of people because he was just following a book which never mentioned it.
highly recommend you go see local beekeeper or local club.
this is something i dislike about the greenie brigade, they think commercial beekeepers are bad/evil and will have nothing to do with them. so they stay away from people who know what to do and end up killing their hives or poisoning people.

coincidently a neighbour (greenie) just showed me a mead recipe they had in a greenie cookbook. apart from a fair few basic omission's (like what yeast, how much yeast, no nutrient, no mention of temps and it would be finished in 10 days regardless), it had instructions to make sparkling mead without any mention of needing sparkling wine bottles.

 

[Rossnaree]

Ignorance is not bliss. Thanks, tweake - it's important to remember and remind others that there's more to it than "let's have bees as pets!"

We're quite fortunate to have several beekeepers in the area, ranging in size from 1-colony hobby beeks all the way up to a couple of commercial keepers that have several hundred hives and winter them in the Carolina's or Florida. Their advice is priceless. With that said, it was one of the commercial growers that advised me to go with a top bar, and another that said Warre', but not to the exclusion of Langstroths. They also said "we'll be here if you need any advice."

Funny, Bush 84, I just replied to another thread about this very same stuff, then I saw your/this thread.

 

[Bush_84]

Ya I always advocate learning everything you can about something like brewing/beekeeping before you make the plunge. Find somebody who you can learn from in person. Ask lots of questions to see if it will be feasible for you to do and if you will really enjoy it. I will be visiting the local beekeeping association meeting on Monday to ask and learn all I can.

Also about overwintering, I read an article about an Apiary who overwinters their Langs in Canada in a single brood chamber! They apparently did better than a double. Overwintering in the crappy Minnesota weather is my biggest concern and I really want to make sure that I am not wasting my time and money before I jump into this.

 

[tweake]

i can't help you on over wintering. where i am its so mild the bees can have 8-10 frames of brood through winter ! it makes varroa control a bit harder. there are some advantages in a cold climate that makes them hibernate.

 

[Pilgarlic]

Last summer my son "interned" (offered his labor for free) with a local beekeeper. In a few short weeks he learned enough so that we felt comfortable in purchasing our first hive boxes and bees. We harvested 50# from that hive in our first year and, though we have lost the colony this winter we're eager to get started again this Spring.
Books are not enough. Until you deal with the challenges hands on you will not in any practical sense "understand" the issues you face in the field. I enjoy studying and absorbing knowledge from books, but I must say that where the bees are concerned, the hands-on is a world apart. I suspect that other beekeepers would welcome an "intern" for whatever hours you're willing to offer, and that experience will be invaluable.

 

[kc_in_wv]

As a 30+ year hobby beekeeper, and an instructor in beekeeping I would suggest you start by buying "Beekeeping for Dummies" After you have read it, find a beekeeper willing to mentor you for a year. When you get ready to start buy yourself a hive from the person who mentored you.

Most people who take up beekeeping just to save money on honey realize later it is cheaper to buy the honey. Beekeeping involves dedication. The days of sitting a hive out back and havesting once a year and forgetting about it the rest of the time ended 30 years ago here in the US.

If you decide to procede past the point of working with a mentor, realize that it will cost you money. In 2007 I did a minimum cost calculation to start one hive of bees with what you need to have. It cost $190.00 including the bees. Now I would say the cost is higher. Always start with at least 2 hives. It is just as easy to take care of 2 hives as one and, maybe, you will get one through your first winter. Then you might have one you can split to make more hives.
';
If you decide to make your own equipment make sure you make your meaurements from the inside of your pattern. The reason is the "beespace" that Tweak mentioned is a concept. It is the distance that bees use in the hive to separate combs from other combs or hive sides. The distance is an approximate distance of 3/8 inch. I am telling you this to show you that beekeeping involves lots of thinking and details.

 

[Sean]

I have been thinking about this for about a year. There is a pretty good community of beekeepers and a few commercial producers in the area.

I am considering building two of these: http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm

Now there is tons I don't know, and I'll be attending the local meetings and reading up.

These seem fairly user friendly for a beginner. Any thoughts from those who have a bit of knowledge?

 

[kc_in_wv]

I think you are wise to join a local group and learn. I would suggest an expierenced hobbiest or part time commercial beekeeper. They would probably have more time to discuss with you why they are doing what they are doing.

I have met Michael Bush and have discussed beekeeping for several hours each night for 2 nights. It was a very good evening. We were both presenters at a convention. I will say that the people got more info from Michael since his presentation was on keeping bee's and mine was on cost saving while beekeeping.

His web site is very good and well laid out. One thing to keep in mind if you are going to approach bee's from his point of view. Michael uses a natural approach to beekeeping. It is more difficult to keep bee's that way because of the mite's and disease. It takes dedication to your bee's to succeed using a total natural approach. Some times this is difficult for a beginner to understand.

I try to keep my bee's in a natural approach also but I am not hesitant to use a medication if the symptoms are there and I am not getting a response from my treatments. I use some of his techniques and some I have developed or learned from others.

I am not saying that his way is wrong. Just be aware that you need to follow his instructions as he details them.

His use of small cell has worked for him and others that use the technique. The researchers say that they do not see any effect from the small cell technique. I think that there is something that is being done by the people who keep bee's in small cell comb that is not being picked up on by the researchers. What they need to do is put a small cell beekeeper on staff and let them keep the bee's under the researcher's observation and see if they can pick up on what is being left out on the studies.

I heard that Michael was scheduled to work out of the country last year. I wonder how his bee's fared without his guidance.

Michael is a pretty active contributor at www.beesource.com

I am going to try a modified topbar hive this year. I have studied them and the problems associated with them and make some modifications to expierment.

I know one of our state bee inspectors and they tell me that all of the beekeepers that they work with has a problem with keeping top bars through the winter. That is in the mountains of WV. I would guess that in NC it would not be as much of a problem.

 

[Sean]

Thanks kc, Is the smaller cell caused by the free hanging comb?

And what are you going to modify on the design?

I don't know that I will follow his method exactly, I just like his site. As someone above said, I just want to get them going and then I can decide on a method. So, whatever works at first.

 

[tweake]

I have been thinking about this for about a year. There is a pretty good community of beekeepers and a few commercial producers in the area.

I am considering building two of these: http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm

Now there is tons I don't know, and I'll be attending the local meetings and reading up.

These seem fairly user friendly for a beginner. Any thoughts from those who have a bit of knowledge?

thanks for the link. i quite like that, it has some good info and a lot more truth than most topbar sites i've seen.

for a beginner i would stick with what ever standard beehives the locals use.
when your proficient at beekeeping then you can play with other designs etc.

 

[kc_in_wv]

Thanks kc, Is the smaller cell caused by the free hanging comb?

QUOTE]

The small cell is a stpped process. Michael goes into it on his web site.

I agree with tweake's post. Any money you save on equipment will be lost multiple times by having to get other bee's to replace your losses from the expermental beekeeping.

The topbar is derived from the Kenya hives. In Kenya they do not use European honeybee's. The bee's there are African, which are very prolific and aggressive. If they loose a hive, there are others they can get.

 

[Sean]

Thanks gents, sounds like good advice, I will look into what others in the area have had success with.

 

[robin850]

If you get snow and frost, consider the "bee cozies". A lot cheaper than buying bees each year.

http://www.miteaway.com/HOME/Bee_Cozy/bee_cozy.html

I have a top-bar hive, but with WI winters they never make it. Makes beautiful comb and wax, but not near as much honey and they are a pain to harvest. The traditional hives (Langstroth) are more efficient overall and imho, worth the investment.

cheers,

robin850

 

[Sean]

Well, I have looked. Langs are most common but many have had good luck with the top bar hive. Just a different set up is all. I built two hives this weekend, very similar to the Michael Bush dimensions. They are much larger than I thought.


I’ll be taking a two Saturday workshop at a local farm, and bees in April. Need to plant some flowers! I hear bees like flowers: )

 

[kellanv]

I manage both top bars and Lang hives. Each have their own pros and cons. It is easier to extract honey from a top bar in that you don't need a lot of equipment such as an extractor. Here in Texas we have had a few more issues with the comb stability in the heat.

As far as resources for beekeeping I would highly suggest finding a local group of beeks that can show you the ropes. There is a pretty big difference between theory and the actual art of working with them. Definitely become familiar with their basic life cycles and stages as it will help diagnose the hive and identify if the hive is queen right. The biggest thing is finding a balance between management and letting them handle themselves.

It's a great hobby. Good luck!

 

[Sean]

I loaded two packages two weeks ago, and am amazed at how fast they built the comb. I have about 5 full combs and a few partial in both hives.