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Bee Cave Brewery Kolsch vs Cream of 3 crops

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makomachine

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I'm wanting to brew a beer for some family members that don't really get into craft beer and have narrowed it down to these two recipes. I'm wanting to brew something I'll enjoy as well, so trying to see what others think of these two beers that have experience with both. I've never had Kolsch before - but it sounds like this isn't a traditional Kolsch per se anyway. Which of these popular recipes do you prefer, and why, and what should I brew first?
 

Hammy71

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I've done both. Many people are put off by the kolsch yeast flavor. Some like it...some hate it, which could mean more beer for you. If your making something for the family members I would go for the cream of 3 first. It is surely a crowd pleaser. It isn't what most would consider a 'craft brew', but interesting enough to keep you happy while pleasing the friends and family too.
 
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makomachine

makomachine

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I've done both. Many people are put off by the kolsch yeast flavor. Some like it...some hate it, which could mean more beer for you. If your making something for the family members I would go for the cream of 3 first. It is surely a crowd pleaser. It isn't what most would consider a 'craft brew', but interesting enough to keep you happy while pleasing the friends and family too.
Thanks! How does cream of 3 crops compare to say the SN Summerfest or Boston Lager? I can drink both of these ok, but find myself not liking BMC these days. Not enough flavor for me to enjoy and frankly will drink the lime varieties when having to choose.
 

Hammy71

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I don't remember any of the Kölsch beers in Cologne being yeasty, at least not like a hefeweizen is yeasty.
Not so much 'yeasty', but has a hint of cloves. I've used several kolsch recipes and they all have a varying degree of the clove taste from the yeast.

Cream of three is nothing like Boston Lager. It's a cream ale. Basically as close to BMC as you can get and still be an ale. It has flavor...but not a lot. I guess that's why it's a good introductory beer to guests. You might want to consider BM's Centennial Blonde. Light enough for the strangers, but flavorable enough that I enjoy it.
 

CA-LT1

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Dude, Co3 is what you want. I've brewed it, and I have my own house recipe based in part from it. I have pretty big house parties, and "they" (the BMC crowd) all say it's like a coors light, but with more flavor.

Just give it a few weeks in the fridge
 

bad67z

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Another vote for Co3, I have also brewed both of them and enjoined them both for what they are. If your trying to please non craft brew folks it is the one.

One suggestion, if you have not brewed with corn or rice before follow BM's suggestion and make sure to use rice hulls on the bottom of your tun. It is the stickiest mash I have ever contended with, and the only time I have had a stuck sparge.
 

edmanster

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+++++++1 on Co3.... ive done many things including subbing the flaked maze for canned cream corn.... they all have come out wonderfull but the best is the OP's (BM's) original recipe.... right now im doubling the rice and aiming at 1.5AAU's of whatever hops i have on hand.... be cautious about getting lightstruck because it is very susceptible to skunking which ive done purposly before and does come out like a mexi-lager :)



Edit: should mention the AAU's im using is at a 30% utilization... its different for everybody and depends on gravity!!!
 

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FWIW I took the Centennial Blond (all simcoe with a tad higher ibu) to a party and the BMC crowd and the craft brew crowd loved it. I don't really like BMC anymore as it just doesn't do it for me. I still have the occasional High Life at the bar, but that is really because BMC is about the only choice around here. Thus I'm a little apprehensive about brewing CO3 because with my limited time I don't want to brew a batch of something I won't love. My $.02
 

ArcaneXor

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Not so much 'yeasty', but has a hint of cloves. I've used several kolsch recipes and they all have a varying degree of the clove taste from the yeast.
It's a very finicky yeast, but it's also extremely clean when you hit its sweet spot. It does tend to produce some sulfur. When fermented above 64 degrees or so, it starts picking up some esters. It does develop some Belgian-like phenols when fermented very warm.

Which version of Koelsch yeast did you use?
 

acefaser

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Co3 is as close to BMC as they get. I have also brewed the centennial blond and the Co3 is much more like Bud Light. Here is a pic of theCo3 however the beer looks a lot darker in the pic. Its a nice gold color in the glass.

Sent from my myTouch 3G Slide using Home Brew Talk

ForumRunner_20110930_120120.jpg
 

Hammy71

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It's a very finicky yeast, but it's also extremely clean when you hit its sweet spot. It does tend to produce some sulfur. When fermented above 64 degrees or so, it starts picking up some esters. It does develop some Belgian-like phenols when fermented very warm.

Which version of Koelsch yeast did you use?
[email protected] degrees.
 

Lucky_Chicken

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another vote for CO3... its not something I would choose for myself but everyone seems to love it and the keg dosent stay full long. I would call it tasting more like a malty bud light after a few weeks in the keg, while still ranking very low on the malty scale. It is a good transition beer if you want people to try your other brews that only drink BMCs... but be warned once you convert them they will keep drinking your beer.
 

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I'm wanting to brew a beer for some family members that don't really get into craft beer and have narrowed it down to these two recipes. I'm wanting to brew something I'll enjoy as well, so trying to see what others think of these two beers that have experience with both. I've never had Kolsch before - but it sounds like this isn't a traditional Kolsch per se anyway. Which of these popular recipes do you prefer, and why, and what should I brew first?
Just throwwing this out there, what about a Helles?
 
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makomachine

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Just throwwing this out there, what about a Helles?
I like a Helles - my dilemma is timing in the near term. I have lagering capabilities but trying to have something ready for Thanksgiving time period. A Helles recipe recommendation would be appreciated as it's on the list of 'to brew'.
 

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Yooper's Fizzy Yellow Beer might fit the bill. It is pretty tasty and would be a BMC drinking crowd pleaser. Not a "light" but light enough to please the BMCers and pretty darn drinkable for the rest of us.
 
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makomachine

makomachine

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Yooper's Fizzy Yellow Beer might fit the bill. It is pretty tasty and would be a BMC drinking crowd pleaser. Not a "light" but light enough to please the BMCers and pretty darn drinkable for the rest of us.
Excellent recommendation! Not sure how I missed that in my database review, but like the grain bill and seems to be a great balance between my tastes and the pure BMC crowd. Thanks for the pointer - this just made the top of my list as I'm a Vienna lover!

What commercial beer would you compare this with as an example?
 

CGVT

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It reminds me a bit of when I was a kid in the late 60s and and stole a beer out of my dad's fridge. I only had one bottle for a taste and it was only in the bottle for a week, but think it leans toward a Bud/Yuengling crossed with a SA Boston Lager type taste. Kinda like I remember Strohs/Blatz/Schlitz way back when before Bud and Miller took over the world.
 

bh10

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I like a Helles - my dilemma is timing in the near term. I have lagering capabilities but trying to have something ready for Thanksgiving time period. A Helles recipe recommendation would be appreciated as it's on the list of 'to brew'.
Personally I like my Helles on the maltier side. I do 88% Pils, 10% Munich II, 2% Acid Malt (all from weyermann) w/ a German hop at 90 min to reach 20 IBU's (I normally use Norther Brewer), w/ WL833 fermented at 50*, shooting for 1.048 OG.

Honestly you have plenty of time IMO, 2 weeks fermenting + rest, lager for 4-6 weeks.
 
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makomachine

makomachine

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Personally I like my Helles on the maltier side. I do 88% Pils, 10% Munich II, 2% Acid Malt (all from weyermann) w/ a German hop at 90 min to reach 20 IBU's (I normally use Norther Brewer), w/ WL833 fermented at 50*, shooting for 1.048 OG.

Honestly you have plenty of time IMO, 2 weeks fermenting + rest, lager for 4-6 weeks.
Thanks for the guidance. I like WLP830 - never used 833 before. I would have time but likely not to get to 'this brew' for 3 to 4 weeks. Have an APA this weekend and then gone for two weeks. Will need to brew at the end of October, which is my dilemma. That said, this is going on the list to have on hand by Christmas - thanks!
 

bh10

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Thanks for the guidance. I like WLP830 - never used 833 before. I would have time but likely not to get to 'this brew' for 3 to 4 weeks. Have an APA this weekend and then gone for two weeks. Will need to brew at the end of October, which is my dilemma. That said, this is going on the list to have on hand by Christmas - thanks!
I should mention I use 100% distilled water and 1/2 tsp of calc. chloride for my mash water, you want the water extremely soft.

As for the yeast its Ayinger's strain and IMO their brew is as good as it gets, so I use it.

Enjoy. :mug:
 
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makomachine

makomachine

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I should mention I use 100% distilled water and 1/2 tsp of calc. chloride for my mash water, you want the water extremely soft.

As for the yeast its Ayinger's strain and IMO their brew is as good as it gets, so I use it.

Enjoy. :mug:
I really like Ayinger's Oktoberfest - never had their Helles but will give their strain a try. Thanks for the water build tips - just started building water from distilled on my last brew and that's very helpful. Do you do any thing special with your mash - i.e. Decoction, protein rests, etc? I have the ability to do multiple rests with my setup and was wondering about your mash schedule suggestions.
 

ArcaneXor

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That strain is probably my least favorite out of the three. I am in the early stages of some experiments with blending Koelsch yeasts and their close relatives to get a Koelsch-like character without needing to micromanage the fermentation so much. Too early to say anything definite, but my favorite so far was 029, 011 and 830 at an approximate ratio of 50:30:20.
 

bh10

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I really like Ayinger's Oktoberfest - never had their Helles but will give their strain a try. Thanks for the water build tips - just started building water from distilled on my last brew and that's very helpful. Do you do any thing special with your mash - i.e. Decoction, protein rests, etc? I have the ability to do multiple rests with my setup and was wondering about your mash schedule suggestions.
I do, do a decoction, depending on what Pils malt I using from Weyermann depends on the schedule, I like the Floor-Malted Bohemian Pilsner which is a little under-modified, for that malt I infuse at 1.75qts/lbs to 122* for 30minutes, decoct a little over a 1/3 of the mash bring to 160* for 15 minutes, bring to boil for 15 minute, add back to mash to reach 147*, next decoct decoct a little over a 1/3 of the mash again bring to 160* for 15 minutes, bring to boil for 15 minute, add back to mash to reach 156*. Next you can mash out or if you want to go big and decoct again to reach mash out temp.

Also if you use a regular fully modified Pils Malt (which almost all are) do you protein rest at 133* for 20 minutes.

Yea Ayinger's Oktober is one of my favorites, but they dont make a Helles (or at least you cant get it in America) they do make a Dortmunder, which is just a Helles with a little more hops, buts its called Jahrhundert-Bier and its amazing, I highly recommend it.
 
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