Batch Sparge technique

[Homercidal]

Ok, I was looking through Palmer's How to Brew - By John Palmer and noticed that palmer suggests using a coffee can lid to pour his sparge water onto, so as to not disturb the grain bed.

When I sparged last yesterday, I simply poured the water right into the cooler and stirred it up. Then I waited a couple of minutes, and drained it out.

Is there a good reason not to disturb the grain bed?

 

[Synovia]

Ok, I was looking through Palmer's How to Brew - By John Palmer and noticed that palmer suggests using a coffee can lid to pour his sparge water onto, so as to not disturb the grain bed.

When I sparged last yesterday, I simply poured the water right into the cooler and stirred it up. Then I waited a couple of minutes, and drained it out.

Is there a good reason not to disturb the grain bed?

With batch sparging, I would think you would want to disturb the bed. I mean, maybe pour the vourlaf back on the coffee lid?


YOu sure hes not talking about fly sparging?

 

[janzik]

I don't have the book in front of me, but I remember a lot of what Palmer wrote in the book was a bit confusing, and I could've sworn someone said that he was mixing up the batch/fly sparging techniques (due to sloppy editing of the book was the way I understood it, because I found contradicting things in my copy of it).

The reason for the coffee can lid is not for starting up each batch of the sparge, but for the vorlauf phase. You want to vorlauf a couple of quarts (I usually only have to do 2 or 3 per batch) and not disturb the grain bed, because you are vorlaufing to cycle through the grained up runnings and let the bed settle out.

 

[Denny]

Even for the vorlauf, it's not necessary. Just pour carefully.

 

[velotech]

Not disturbing the grain bed is an issue with fly sparging. For batch sparging I just pour back in, including vorlauf, and don't have a problem. I pour gently, not splashing all over, but I'm not so worried about disturbing the top of the grain bed.

 

[Revvy]

Not disturbing the grain bed is an issue with fly sparging. For batch sparging I just pour back in, including vorlauf, and don't have a problem. I pour gently, not splashing all over, but I'm not so worried about disturbing the top of the grain bed.

Yeah, I tried the coffee can lid dealy a couple times starting out...then forgot about it and just dumped the sparge water in...and I still ended up making beer...so I forgot about the coffee can lid thing.

In fact cleaning house yesterday, I cam upon a couple of those coffee can metal lid pieces and tossed them out.

 

[Bobby_M]

Yup, it's classic Palmer where he's talking about batch sparging for a second and then switches to fly sparging "stuff" without telling you. Disturb the **** out of the grain bed when batch sparging, please.

 

[Revvy]

Yup, it's classic Palmer where he's talking about batch sparging for a second and then switches to fly sparging "stuff" without telling you. Disturb the **** out of the grain bed when batch sparging, please.

Yeah isn't that the point of the BATCH? Dumping a lot of water in at once to flush the grain clean of sugar?

I mean I alsways give it about 10 minutes or so after doing that, to let stuff settle and hopefully have all those little packets of grain that maybe didn't fully convert, to have a second chance, and then I re-vorloff before draining it again....

I can understand using the tin lid if I were attempting to fly sparge without some sort of manifold of sparge arm to protect the bed, and help distribute the water evenly.

 

[Denny]

Yup, it's classic Palmer where he's talking about batch sparging for a second and then switches to fly sparging "stuff" without telling you. Disturb the **** out of the grain bed when batch sparging, please.

Absolutely correct when adding sparge water, but you still want to be gentle when returning the vorlauf portion.

 

[Homercidal]

I was using a tupperware lid for a couple of AG batches and one time as I was getting ready to sparge, I thought real hard about it ans said, "This doesn't make sense!" And it'a PITA to mess with. Why does it matter?

So I started just pouring the water in and stirring up the grain a bit. Let it sit for a couple of minutes and then crack the spigot.

Also, is there a reason to mash out with batch sparging? I mean, I usually start the boil with the first runnings, just to get a head start on that step, while sparging. Then add the first and second sparge to the boil kettle. As I understand, the mash out is to stop the enzyme activity, but the wort is probably going to get above 180 pretty quickly anyway, right? I can see it if you were fly sparging, cause it takes longer.

 

[RichBenn]

Yup, it's classic Palmer where he's talking about batch sparging for a second and then switches to fly sparging "stuff" without telling you. Disturb the **** out of the grain bed when batch sparging, please.

As a newbie to all grain, who just did his first batch today, I found I had to look elsewhere for batch sparging instructions. Palmer doesn't really cover it well, IMHO. I found alot better information here in these forums, and built my mash tun using designs found here. (All was good, BTW!)

In the Brewing Network podcast interview Palmer did, it's kind of clear that he is a little behind on what's happening these days with batch sparging and some of the efficiencies people are getting. But the rest of his stuff is a godsend to a newbie....

 

[HotbreakHotel]

Agree, for vorlaufing. If you pour wort back in directly into the grain bed it will leave a depression, and your wort will channel through it. I don't use a lid or anything for vorlaufing. I just stir up the top inch or so of grain and smooth it out, and that seems to work fine.

 

[Denny]

Agree, for vorlaufing. If you pour wort back in directly into the grain bed it will leave a depression, and your wort will channel through it.

Doesn't work that way at my house....

 

[cactusgarrett]

Even for the vorlauf, it's not necessary. Just pour carefully.

I only use the lids for vorlauff. That pic seems to be a fairly "dilute" mash/batch sparge stage. The coffee can lid works very well when you're using a smaller water:grain ratio or a smaller amount of sparge water and it doesn't cover the top of the grain bed.

 

[Rick500]

Not only do I disturb the grain bed when batch sparging, I stir the heck out of it. Have no fear, just pour it back in with reckless abandon!

[Edit: Take some care w/ the vorlauf, as was said, since you're trying to keep the filter intact.]

 

[Bobby_M]

Even when pouring the vorlauf back in, it doesn't matter if you make a small depression as long as it doesn't drill all the way down within an inch of the bottom of the cooler. There's no channeling in batch sparging. Remove it from your vocabulary until you try fly sparging.

 

[powderbock]

I would disagree, I have witnessed channeling in my own batch sparging. I use a large piece of tin foil. poke a bunch of little holes in it and lay it over the entire top of my cooler. I vorlauf onto that instead of pouring directly in.
It works fine for me.

 

[illin8]

i took the top of a styrofoam cooler, poked a bunch of holes in it and I float it upside down (so the sides kept the wort contained inside the lid) on top of the wort. Works pretty well...had to make the holes big enough to keep from cloggin w/ the occassional grain particle though...

 

[Bobby_M]

I would disagree, I have witnessed channeling in my own batch sparging. I use a large piece of tin foil. poke a bunch of little holes in it and lay it over the entire top of my cooler. I vorlauf onto that instead of pouring directly in.
It works fine for me.

We need to be careful with the term channeling. You might be talking about drilling a hole or depression into the grain bed when pouring the vorlauf back in but as long as you don't disturb the very bottom near the separation medium, it doesn't matter. "Channeling" in the context of brewing/sparging is a fly sparging term whereby sparge water bypasses large pockets of sugar as it takes a path of least resistance. I'm nit picking here but I don't want new all grain brewers to get confused. Gently pouring the vorlauf works pretty well without extra stuff to clean. If anything, you might hold your mash paddle near the surface and pour onto that.

 

[homebrewer_99]

It seems to me a colandar would work great in this situation...plenty of coverage albeit maybe a bit fast...

Anyone know of a colandar with fine mesh holes, or is this my $1,000,000 money making invention to be earned at $19.95 intervals? :rockin:

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

It seems to me a colandar would work great in this situation...plenty of coverage albeit maybe a bit fast...

Anyone know of a colandar with fine mesh holes, or is this my $1,000,000 money making invention to be earned at $19.95 intervals? :rockin:

HB Bill, haven't seen a post from you in a while, not that you haven't been, I just haven't seen one in some time!