Actually that's one section of Palmer's book I don't like. He talks about batch sparging in a half-assed way and doesn't differentiate between fly/batch when referring to other fringe parts of the process.howtobrew.com
do a search for 'sparging' and Palmer will fill you full of knowledge.
I know that was mentioned, but don't take it as the gospel. It is done at times for various reasons, but generally speaking you should sparge. Whether it is fly or batch is up to you and your equipment. Your method does sound really slow for a batch sparge drain though.So let me get this straight. You guys are suggesting mashing with 7-8 gallons of water and then not rinsing the grain bed afterwards?
Right now I mash at 1.25-1.5qts per pound. So a 12Lbs grain bill I'll use 17-18qts. I'll slowly drain over a 30min time then add another 15qts and drain for maybe 20minutes.
What's the opinion?
What I did was to mash in and let sit for a few minutes, then drain off a bit until it runs clearish. then pour this back into the mlt. All this does is get the dirty runnings out of the system and on top of the grain bed, which will then filter it clear.I also had a similar question about this. After reading this is what I got.
Batch Sparge is:
Mash as usual.
Collect and pour back in till it runs clear.
Let 'er rip until empty.
Refill with Sparge water let sit for however long you want.
Collect and pour back in till it runs clear.
Let 'er rip until empty.
Do I have that right? Im going to be going all grain by the end of the month and want to be clear on this.
99% of the time I do a single sparge addition. If you have a large enough cooler, you should almost never need to do more than that.Brewsmith software offers a bunch of different option for batch sparging, one sparge, mutiple sparges of equal amounts, etc. What are the benefits and drawbacks of the different methods?
So how much time IS needed for the batch sparge? Just a quick stir and that's it? Also, should I keep my mash at about 1.4 qts/lb (roughly 14 quarts), and use the four gallons in a single sparge, or would it be better to thin my mash and sparge with less? I've got plenty of headspace in my 10 gallon round Gott...If your cooler is big enough, try doing only one sparge. I can hit 80+ efficiency with only one and was just talking to someone who switched from 2 to1 and had great results. And save yourself some time...there's nothing to be gained form those 15 min. rests in the sparge.
Even at 1.5 qt/lb, I'd be mashing with 3 1/2 to 4 gallons and sparging with about 4 gallons (for a typical ESB, my ol' stand-by). That means about 2 gallons from the first runnings and 4 gallons from the second into the brewpot. No issues with this?I just stir in the sparge water, vorlauf, and runoff...no rest at all. I've experimented with times from 1/2 hour to nothing and it just didn't make any difference. If I predict that my mash runoff and sparge runoff will be more than a gal. apart in volume, I don't bother trying to equalize them. I haven't seen any benefits when they're that close. More than that and I'd add water to the mash before running it off. I had been working toward thinner mashes and once I read Kai's work, it was all the incentive I needed. I mash at 1.5 qt./lb generaaly these days.
Thanks, Telemark... sounds like a plan.if you want to have equal volume of runnings without adjusting the mash ratio you can always do a mashout. So in your case John, if you typically get 2g's from the first runnings at 1.5 qt/lb and need 4g more for preboil volume, add 1g at the end of the mash and you should end up with 3g's from each of the runnings.
I've found that the way Beersmith handles batch sparging is kinda weird. That first, small addition I would have added to the mash before the runoff, then sparged with the 3.5 gal.My question was for batch sparge one. This was obviously too small amount of water for a sparge by itself, so I ended up just doing one round of with all of the sparge water. I am not sure why Beersmith set this up as a "sparge". It seems more like a mashout to me. Am I missreading this step, or do I have Beersmith configured wrong?
I decided a long time ago that for the extra effort it just wasn't worth the time or effort. I average 82-84% with a single sparge and that's good enough for me!What telemarkbrew just said is the ideal way of performing a single batch sparge. Equal runnings size maximizes efficiency given the constraint of two runnings. Three runnings of 2g each would be a little more efficient (2-3%) but requires an extra stir and vorlauf. You decide.
I guess if people are having efficiency issues, the first place I'd look is the crush. After that, mash tun dead space. Might as well try to get to the root of the problem. But if the cooler you;re using is short on capacity (like the round 5 gal.), a 2nd sparge may be the only answer (well, actually a bigger cooler would be the answer!)Fair enough. Certainly for those who are having issues getting their efficiency up to what they'd consider acceptable, a double sparge is ONE way to do it at a cost of extra work. If you're in the mid 80% brewhouse area, 3-4% more isn't all that big of an incentive.
I agree there are many places to lose or gain efficiency and the number of sparges is just one of them. I find Kai's chart, from a pure sparge extraction perspective, to be spot on:I guess if people are having efficiency issues, the first place I'd look is the crush. After that, mash tun dead space. Might as well try to get to the root of the problem. But if the cooler you;re using is short on capacity (like the round 5 gal.), a 2nd sparge may be the only answer (well, actually a bigger cooler would be the answer!)
My efficiency's have only been around 70%, but I believe it has been due to the crush setting on my mill. I am still using the factory setting, but I will tighten it a notch to see if that helps. If single sparges tend to result in decent efficiencies, then I guess I will try to single sparge until I get my process nailed down .I decided a long time ago that for the extra effort it just wasn't worth the time or effort. I average 82-84% with a single sparge and that's good enough for me!
Hell...I would like to know if changing to fly sparge was your difference. I would tend to think its just your crush, but if its the sparge, I'm investing in fly sparge equipment asap!I can't remember if I had my own grinder back then. My efficiency was around 75% with batch sparge and it's around 85-90% with fly sparge. I'll have to give it a shot and see.
Yeah, I add extra water to the mash if necessary (seldom is), vorlauf, drain completely, stir in sparge water, vorlauf again (no rest for the sparge water!), then drain completely again. Takes about 15 min. for that whole process. I made a 1.070 IPA last weekend using domestic malts and got 82% efficiency.Denny, do you drain then add your sparge water. That's what I used to do when I did single batch sparge. I've been doing fly sparge for quite a while now. Been thinking of switching back to save on time but have been worried about losing efficiency.
I can't remember if I had my own grinder back then. My efficiency was around 75% with batch sparge and it's around 85-90% with fly sparge. I'll have to give it a shot and see.
(BTW, I feel like I'm talking to myself when I talk to you. lol)
I'd be willing to bet it's the crush. I know too many fly spargers who don't get efficiencies any better than batch spargers to think it's sparge method.Hell...I would like to know if changing to fly sparge was your difference. I would tend to think its just your crush, but if its the sparge, I'm investing in fly sparge equipment asap!