Batch sparge lautering times?

[QuercusMax]

I've been batch sparging using a 48-quart rectangular cooler with a toilet braid for about a year now. It generally takes about 10-15 minutes to drain my mash tun, and when doing a 5-gallon batch that's not too bad. I'll start heating the first runnings while doing a sparge, vorlauf and lauter for the second batch. If I have the flame most of the way up on my propane burner I can get the first runnings close to boiling by the time the second sparge is done.

Now that I've started doing 10-gallon batches, though, the time is getting pretty tiresome - I can't drain very quickly or else my grain bed compacts down to a brick. It takes about an hour to complete the runoff.

Is this typical? For other batch-spargers, how long does it take you to complete your runoff?

 

[billl]

It's not typical. If you are compacting the grain bed, that means you are grinding finer than your system can handle. Either back off that grind or toss in some rice hulls to fluff it up.

 

[b-boy]

Use rice hulls if you're not already. I use 2-3 handfuls for most batches. More if they contain wheat or anything flaked like oats.

 

[QuercusMax]

I'll have to give that a try - I've only ever used rice hulls when doing stuff with a lot of flaked grains or wheat.

I use a corona mill, with the same setting I used when I was doing BIAB, and everything seems to work fine - just that draining my mash tun is annoyingly slow. I may also try adjusting my crush, hopefully it won't hurt my efficiency too much.

I've got my system pretty well dialed in efficiency-wise, but it just sucks so much time...

 

[b-boy]

I use a copper manifold. I only get stuck sparges with oats in the tun. The rice hulls usually do the trick.

I recently built a 72 quart rectangular cooler with a mash screen. It's the first time I've ever used one. I haven't tried it out yet.

Hopefully I won't see the lauter times that you're seeing. If I do I'll probably build another manifold.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Could try a larger braid, like a dishwasher supply or a hot water heater supply SS braid.

The larger braids seem to be sturdier and provide a bit more surface area than the smaller toilet braids.

Sorry, just have to ask, are you sure it is stainless steel braid?
Some are actually plastic that appear like stainless but lauter poorly.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/imposter-plastic-braids-122648/

The real stainless braid will be very fine wires, the plastic not nearly as fine. You should not be so slow to lauter with a braid, something doesn't seem right to me.


Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[duboman]

Typically most people that do BIAB crush finer than those that traditionally mash so I might suggest you back off the crush a bit and see if that helps, it shouldn't take that long to sparge/lauter. I would also suggest rice hulls, you can even go up to a lb for a 10 gallon batch.

 

[QuercusMax]

I did a 10-gallon batch of a double-decocted Dunkel, and added 1/3 lb of rice hulls - didn't help, it stuck horribly. After adding another 2/3 lb it ran off much better. I'm going to back off my crush a bit - I use a corona mill so it's a little hard to gauge, but I guess i'll do about a half turn...

 

[Doongie]

I am having a similar quandry. I have been using a square cooler and homemade braid for a couple years. I had a few stuck sparges, so I backed off my mill a bit, somewhere around .038, maybe even .040.
After mash, sometimes I mashout, sometimes I dont'. Regardless, when I begin lautering I vorlauf, then run in the kettle. While lautering I am warming sparge water. Often the mash runs nearly dry before the sparge water is ready, so I shut the valve and wait. Then I add the sparge water, stir like mad, let the grain bed settle a bit, vorlauf, and lauter again. This is where I find the lautering is very slow, or even stops.
I am a bit confused by it. If the first lautering runs fine, why won't the second? It is clear my crush is ok, or the first lauter would be problematic.

any ideas why it's slow?

 

[duboman]

I am having a similar quandry. I have been using a square cooler and homemade braid for a couple years. I had a few stuck sparges, so I backed off my mill a bit, somewhere around .038, maybe even .040.
After mash, sometimes I mashout, sometimes I dont'. Regardless, when I begin lautering I vorlauf, then run in the kettle. While lautering I am warming sparge water. Often the mash runs nearly dry before the sparge water is ready, so I shut the valve and wait. Then I add the sparge water, stir like mad, let the grain bed settle a bit, vorlauf, and lauter again. This is where I find the lautering is very slow, or even stops.
I am a bit confused by it. If the first lautering runs fine, why won't the second? It is clear my crush is ok, or the first lauter would be problematic.

any ideas why it's slow?

Perhaps the grain bed is settling too hard by the time you get your sparge water going, perhaps the fine sediment is settling in your braid, just a thought since you state no problems with your first runnings

 

[AnOldUR]

You're probably building up a lot of fine particles in your braid during the first lauter and it gets worse during the second. Before starting your second running (and after stirring), try blowing into the drain tube to clear your braid.

 

[Doongie]

You're probably building up a lot of fine particles in your braid during the first lauter and it gets worse during the second. Before starting your second running (and after stirring), try blowing into the drain tube to clear your braid.

I did try blowing back through the valve, didn't help. When I disassemble for cleaning I find no fine particle buildup in the screen.
I discussed it with my uncle, who happens to be a fairly experienced and accomplished brewer, and I have come to the conclusion it is probably a combination of factors.
1) English Maris Otter is a little "stickier" than regular domestic two row, this particular batch also contained a lb of flaked barley
2) Lower water volume runs slower, naturally, and possibly because the end of the first lauter may run a bit quicker because the initial lautering sort of supports itself, similar to how siphon action is self supporting.
3) Maybe there is some grain bed compaction going on due to my stirring method.
4) maybe my idea of how fast it should run is unrealistic. Seems odd because I am comparing to the first lauter, but in combination all the factors could be causing my perceived problem.

 

[Doongie]

I did try blowing back through the valve, didn't help. When I disassemble for cleaning I find no fine particle buildup in the screen.
I discussed it with my uncle, who happens to be a fairly experienced and accomplished brewer, and I have come to the conclusion it is probably a combination of factors.
1) English Maris Otter is a little "stickier" than regular domestic two row, this particular batch contained 4.5 lbs of MO, and also a lb of flaked barley
2) Lower water volume runs slower, naturally, and possibly because the end of the first lauter may run a bit quicker because the initial lautering sort of supports itself, similar to how siphon action is self supporting.
3) Maybe there is some grain bed compaction going on due to my stirring method.
4) maybe my idea of how fast it should run is unrealistic. Seems odd because I am comparing to the first lauter, but in combination all the factors could be causing my perceived problem.

 

[QuercusMax]

Here's an update:

I backed off my corona mill crush. Lauter is much much MUCH faster, but my efficiency has gone from 78 down to around 70. I think I'm going to tighten it up a smidge, but so far it's shaved about an hour off my 10-gallon brew days.

 

[guitarguy6]

I also do 10 gallon all grain batches and find that using a BIAB style bag in my mash tun works great. I have yet to encounter slow or stuck sparges.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Sometimes I have found that the top of the grain bed is clogged w/ fines. Simply use a spoon or paddle to rake some slits in the top will relieve this condition. If this doesn't work, I have stirred down deep along the braid, as a braid filters pretty well and disturbing the grain doesn't really have a great affect on the runnoff, yea a little cloudy for a minute but no big deal IMO. Also, if it is still running but slow, sometimes best to just walk away and let it finish...I had a very slow runoff once but got very nice clear runnings...