Batch Sparge clarification

[Adam78K]

Ok just to clear this up I know how to mash and I've read a ton of stuff I'm just still a little unclear about the batch sparge because I'm a noob. After you mash in around 150+ for about a hour your ready to recirculate. After you collect the voluraf your ready to pour into your brew kettle. So this is where I get confused do you empty all of the water into the brew kettle than after you put in your sparge water and stabilize no more than 170 F in your mashtun, stir and let it stand for about 10 mins, then collect that wort? Or since I have a big enough mashtun can I just pour the water in the mashtun before I do the first runoff. And if I did that, how hot would the water have to be and would it need to stablize at 170 F or less for 10 mins, just a little confused how this process works, any input would be awesome thank you.

 

[Nugent]

Much of this reply comes from my experiences, my system and a gradual increase in efficiency.

First, I double batch sparge, as do most batch spargers. My thoughts are that rather than mashing out (which is what you're talking about with topping up your mash tun with 170 degree water before the first runnings), I do two sparges after my first runnings are out at about 170.

So first runnings, add 170 water, mix for a few minutes, rest for 15 mins, vorlauf, run out. Repeat. I generally get 75%-78% efficiency, which I'm fine with at this stage. Regardless, I always try small tweaks to up my efficiency. Others might disagree with my methodology or gaffaw at my efficiency satisfaction but it works for me.

Good luck.

 

[FreddieK]

Well to be honest, you could really do it either way. I personally have a big enough tun and I like to add all my sparge water straight into the grains without draining first. I use beersmith to figure out how hot the water I add needs to be so I don't overshoot 170F and it's always been pretty spot on. I enjoy this method because it allows me to easily lauter big or sticky beers (my first oatmeal stout was a near disaster before using this technique). I figure that since people with the ability to heat their mash tun, often raise the mash temp to mashout and make lautering easier, this method effectively does the same thing. But I will say, each person has their own preference.

Edit: Beat me to it Nuge

 

[BakerStreetBeers]

I used to do as Nugent describes, but now I do a mashout and single batch sparge. My ability to calculate the different volumes needed for the steps is improving, but still far from perfect. But the basics steps are:

Stir in enough boiling water to the mash to raise the temperature to 170.

Let sit for 10 minutes.

Drain the mash tun.

Add 170 degree water, enough to get the volume of 1st runnings up to the target pre-boil volume.

Let sit 10 minutes.

Drain.

I've been happy with the efficiency I get with this method and on my system it's actually faster than a double batch sparge with no mashout (1 less drain).

 

[Adam78K]

so using the denny conn method, how much do you need to raise the temperature up to before draining the mashtun?

 

[Bobby_M]

If you add "ALL" of your sparge to the tun before first runnings, I'd call it a no sparge.
It would be noticeably less efficient, maybe 8-10% less. I guess the advantage is that you don't have to collect your first runnings into a 3rd temporary vessel like a bucket while you're holding your sparge in the kettle. IMHO, it's not a big deal to use your bucket.

My advice would be to drain the tun and add the sparge in at about 185F. If you have room in the tun, you can go ahead and add it in one batch. Breaking it into two discrete sparges (for a total of 3 discrete drainings) might be worth an extra 2-4% efficiency, but you decide if it's worth the extra work.

Software is really the easy way of knowing what effect certain temps will have on the overall grainbed temp.

 

[dantodd]

IMHO, it's not a big deal to use your bucket.

I prefer a bucket, it allows me to measure my volumes and the gravities of my runnings so I will know exactly when and where my sugars are bing pulled. It's good to know if you're already at your target pre-boil gravity before you hit your pre-boil volume. This way I can add as many points of the third runnings as I need and top with water if I am more efficient than planned. I prefer to hit my OG on the head rather than assume that 3 or 4 extra points are "good enough."

 

[remilard]

First, I double batch sparge, as do most batch spargers.

I don't think thats true at all, I had never really heard of people double sparging until I started posting here.

Many of the early proponents of batch sparging (up to and including Denny Conn) did a single sparge and you find most people on other forums doing it that way. Its probably fair to say there are a lot of people doing it either way.

The "Denny Conn" Method uses one sparge and you try to collect roughly equal runnings from the sparge and the initial mash drain.

So lets say you are going to collect 7 gallons and you expect to get 3 from the first runnings. Before running off, you add half a gallon of water to collect 3.5 and then sparge with 3.5.

This serves two purposes. With a single sparge, equaling the runoff volumes maximizes efficiency. Second, adding near boiling water will raise the temperature of the grain bed. Since sugar is more soluble in hot water, this should have a slightly positive effect on efficiency as well.

 

[Bobby_M]

It's kind of a wash. Yes, ideally the runnings volumes should be close to equal for higher efficiency, but mathematically and practically, more discrete sparges is more efficient. The wash is that it takes more time and effort and the increase is minimal. About 3-4%.

I agree that "most" is probably more than reality unless most brewers are using really small mashtuns.

 

[Adam78K]

I appreciate everyones help, personally I think I will go with the double sparge method. Seems easier to me to know the exact temperture and exact amount of water going into the sparge rather than doing a no sparge and trying to equal out the amount of water you need and adjusting the temperature correctly.