Batch #10 Pale Ale... I need some input on my recipe choices!

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Washington_Brewologist

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This will be my 10th batch and I'm trying to brew up a really tasty hop bursted APA. I also took my first stab at creating a recipe based on all of the stuff I've learned over the last 3 or 4 months. I'm wondering if you guys think Simcoe would work as a good bittering hop in this recipe? If you guys have any experience brewing with these hops or think I could change anything that might make this a better beer, please share your wisdom!


UPDATED RECIPE:

Batch #10

Maris Otter 7.5#
Munich Malt 3#
Crystal 40 0.5#

Hop Additions:

.5oz Simcoe @ 20 minutes
.5oz Amarillo @ 10 minutes
.5oz Denali @ 10 minutes
1oz Amarillo @ 5 minutes
1oz Denali @ 5 minutes
1oz Amarillo @ Wirlpool 20 minutes @ 150-170
1oz Denali @ Wirlpool
.5oz simcoe @ Wirlpool

1.5 oz Amarillo & Denali for a 3 day dry hop after fermentaion.

 
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IslandLizard

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You may want to lose the Victory, there's plenty of flavor from the MO and Munich.

I would use a regular bittering hop for 60' boils, like Warrior, Magnum, Nugget, etc. and use the Simcoe addition much, much later. Boiling hops for an hour doesn't leave much of their flavor or character.

Look into doing a 20-30' whirlpool/hop stand at reduced temps (150-170F) with your current flameout hops. In that case, move the 15' and 10' hops up 10' to become 5' and 0' hops, resp. A hop stand will extract a lot of flavor, and depending on the temps, less bittering. You'll need to adjust your hop additions to get the proper IBUs.
 

kh54s10

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Simcoe is listed in my book as a bittering hop. You will lose flavor and aroma so if you want those you would have to bitter with something else and move the Simcoe to late additions or dry hop.

Personally I bitter with less expensive hops and use the expensive ones as flavor and aroma additions.

But I like the recipe as original. I have not used Denali so I can't make any comment on it's use.
 
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Washington_Brewologist

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You may want to lose the Victory, there's plenty of flavor from the MO and Munich.

I would use a regular bittering hop for 60' boils, like Warrior, Magnum, Nugget, etc. and use the Simcoe addition much, much later. Boiling hops for an hour doesn't leave much of their flavor or character.

Look into doing a 20-30' whirlpool/hop stand at reduced temps (150-170F) with your current flameout hops. In that case, move the 15' and 10' hops up 10' to become 5' and 0' hops, resp. A hop stand will extract a lot of flavor, and depending on the temps, less bittering. You'll need to adjust your hop additions to get the proper IBUs.

Take a look at my updated recipe and tell me if this is what you meant:



Maris Otter 7.5 # Added the 1/2 lbs to the MO. removed Victory
Munich Malt 3#
Crystal 40 0.5#

Hop Additions:

1oz Nugget @ 60 minutes
.5oz Amarillo @ 10 minutes
.5oz Denali @ 10 minutes
1oz Amarillo @ 5 minutes
1oz Denali @ 5 minutes
1oz Amarillo @ 0 minute wirlpool @ 150-170
1oz Denali @ 0 minute wirlpool @ 150-170

1oz Amarillo & Denali for a 3 day dry hop after fermentaion.
 

ProblemChild

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Take a look at my updated recipe and tell me if this is what you meant:



Maris Otter 7.5 # Added the 1/2 lbs to the MO. removed Victory
Munich Malt 3#
Crystal 40 0.5#

Hop Additions:

1oz Nugget @ 60 minutes
.5oz Amarillo @ 10 minutes
.5oz Denali @ 10 minutes
1oz Amarillo @ 5 minutes
1oz Denali @ 5 minutes
1oz Amarillo @ 0 minute wirlpool @ 150-170
1oz Denali @ 0 minute wirlpool @ 150-170

1oz Amarillo & Denali for a 3 day dry hop after fermentaion.


I like it. As a thought - move Simcoe to 20 and don't bother with a bittering hop. Your IBU should be pretty good already for a pale based on what I am seeing. What are your IBU's with current reicpe?
 
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I like it. As a thought - move Simcoe to 20 and don't bother with a bittering hop. Your IBU should be pretty good already for a pale based on what I am seeing. What are your IBU's with current reicpe?
Are you saying don't bother with the nugget and just add the Simcoe from the original recipe @ 20 minutes? According to beersmith my current IBU's are at 69.9 after removing the bittering addition and adding the 20-minute addition. Do you think this is too high for a pale ale?
 
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I would double the dry hops
I will only have 1oz of denali left after all the additions. I'm going to buy the ingredients today so doubling up on the Amarillo will be no problem. do you think I could just add 1 or 2 oz of another hop to make up for the denali? If so what do you think would work well with my ingredients?
 

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Are you saying don't bother with the nugget and just add the Simcoe from the original recipe @ 20 minutes? According to beersmith my current IBU's are at 69.9 after removing the bittering addition and adding the 20-minute addition. Do you think this is too high for a pale ale?
A pale should top out at 50 and guessing 11lb will put you at about a 1.050 - 1.055 OG, you should likely target the low 40's at highest. Probably should shoot for 40 just to keep the BU:GU in the right place
 
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A pale should top out at 50 and guessing 11lb will put you at about a 1.050 - 1.055 OG, you should likely target the low 40's at highest. Probably should shoot for 40 just to keep the BU:GU in the right place
So I went through and adjusted my bitterness in beersmith and it adjusted all of the weights of my additions. Is this the best way to go about this? Adjusted it says that I'm now at around 48 IBUs.
 

ProblemChild

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So I went through and adjusted my bitterness in beersmith and it adjusted all of the weights of my additions. Is this the best way to go about this? Adjusted it says that I'm now at around 48 IBUs.
Not my favorite. Depends on what you want to highlight. With your recipe, I would have kept the hops as they were save for the bittering. Use the 20 min addition of Simcoe and raise or lower until bitterness is reached. That approach only applies to this recipe as the remaining hops were spot on to my taste.
 
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Not my favorite. Depends on what you want to highlight. With your recipe, I would have kept the hops as they were save for the bittering. Use the 20 min addition of Simcoe and raise or lower until bitterness is reached. That approach only applies to this recipe as the remaining hops were spot on to my taste.
That is a bit confusing. So are you telling me to keep the original hop amounts and just adjust the amount of the 20-minute addition of Simcoe to reach desired bitterness?
 
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That is a bit confusing. So are you telling me to keep the original hop amounts and just adjust the amount of the 20-minute addition of Simcoe to reach desired bitterness?
How does this sound: Est IBU 49.9
Batch #10

Maris Otter 7.5#
Munich Malt 3#
Crystal 40 0.5#

Hop Additions:

.5oz Simcoe @ 20 minutes
.5oz Amarillo @ 10 minutes
.5oz Denali @ 10 minutes
1oz Amarillo @ 5 minutes
1oz Denali @ 5 minutes
1oz Amarillo @ Wirlpool 20 minutes @ 150-170
1oz Denali @ Wirlpool
.5oz simcoe @ Wirlpool

1.5 oz Amarillo & Denali for a 3 day dry hop after fermentaion.
 

ProblemChild

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How does this sound: Est IBU 49.9
Batch #10

Maris Otter 7.5#
Munich Malt 3#
Crystal 40 0.5#

Hop Additions:

.5oz Simcoe @ 20 minutes
.5oz Amarillo @ 10 minutes
.5oz Denali @ 10 minutes
1oz Amarillo @ 5 minutes
1oz Denali @ 5 minutes
1oz Amarillo @ Wirlpool 20 minutes @ 150-170
1oz Denali @ Wirlpool
.5oz simcoe @ Wirlpool

1.5 oz Amarillo & Denali for a 3 day dry hop after fermentaion.
You got it. That should do really well.
 

IslandLizard

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1oz Amarillo @ Wirlpool 20 minutes @ 150-170
1oz Denali @ Wirlpool
.5oz simcoe @ Wirlpool
After flameout, try to drop the kettle temp to 170F as fast as you can. Then leave it at that temp, covered for 20' with a gentle but good stirring every 3-5 minutes. Letting the temp drop by itself, slowly, to around 160 or 150F is good. After those 20', chill down to pitching temps.

There are almost endless scenarios how to conduct your whirlpool/hop stands. Each has their unique advantage, accentuating something over other approaches. For example, for NEIPAs I now do 2 whirlpool additions one at 170F for 10' the 2nd at 150F for 20-30' instead of 10° higher ones.
 
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After flameout, try to drop the kettle temp to 170F as fast as you can. Then leave it at that temp, covered for 20' with a gentle but good stirring every 3-5 minutes. Letting the temp drop by itself, slowly, to around 160 or 150F is good. After those 20', chill down to pitching temps.

There are almost endless scenarios how to conduct your whirlpool/hop stands. Each has their unique advantage, accentuating something over other approaches. For example, for NEIPAs I now do 2 whirlpool additions one at 170F for 10' the 2nd at 150F for 20-30' instead of 10° higher ones.
Any suggestion on how to lower the temperature quickly? Should I bust out the wort chiller and just pull it once I've hit 170? Also, thanks for all of the help!
 

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Any suggestion on how to lower the temperature quickly? Should I bust out the wort chiller and just pull it once I've hit 170? Also, thanks for all of the help!
Absolutely use your wort chiller. You want to stop or slow down alpha acid isomerization (bittering) as fast as possible to retain more flavor from your late hop boil additions. Drop the coil in 10' before flameout to sanitize it. At flameout let the chilling water flow. Keep moving the coil around and up and down slowly to agitate the wort, while optimizing chilling. Keep an eye on the wort temp and possible stratification. When you're nearly at your target temp of 170F, shut the water flow off. It may keep dropping a few degrees. Leave the chiller in so it remains sanitized. It's not advised to remove it and drop it back in at 150F, unless you can store it in a well sanitized and covered bucket or other vessel for the time being, to keep it sanitary while outside the kettle.

That's a nice recipe!
 
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Awesome! These are some really great tips! I have one more question to ask of you. Do you suggest just tossing in pellet hops and not putting them in muslin bags? My method for the last few batches has been to just toss in the pellet hops and bag up the loose leaf hops. It starts to get a bit crowded inside my kettle when I got 4 bags, a wort chiller and then I'm trying to stir up a whirlpool for 20 minutes.
 

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Use 1/2 tsp of Irish Moss (or Whirlfloc) per 5-6 gallons of wort 10' before flameout. I presoak the Irish Moss with a [Edit] 1/4 cup of hot wort for 10-15 minutes before I add it. It swells up and becomes gelatinous. I think it works best that way.

With an immersion coil hops can float loose around. With a plate chiller, probably not so, they can get plugged up.

If you bag the hops, they need to be able to swim freely inside the bags, definitely don't overstuff them. As long as wort can move freely in and out the bags, hop oil extraction will be good. I use a plate chiller, so my hops are bagged. They also contain a handful of glass marbles to weigh them down. I lift the bags up and let them drain out several times (every 5 minutes or so) during the boil and whirlpool, that way I know fresh wort will get back in. My bags are very fine mesh nylon "hop bags." Only some very fine dust gets out.

You don't need to stir constantly for 20 minutes, just every 3-5 minutes should suffice. We call that a hop stand. When you recirculate (with a pump) and use a way to spin the wort around it's considered a whirlpool. They have the same purpose: efficiently extract the hop oils.

If you don't bag the hops, when the wort has chilled to or near pitching temps, remove the immersion chiller and let stand for at least 10-15 minutes, or much longer if you want clearer wort. The trub will coagulate and sink to the bottom together with the hop pulp. After an hour or so the wort will have become pretty clear. Rack from the top, leaving the trub layer behind.

Or you can stir the wort in a circular motion to create a whirlpool, for maybe 30 seconds. Pull the spoon or paddle out, and let rest for 10-15 minutes. The whirlpool will concentrate most trub in a cone like heap in the bottom center of the kettle. With a side pickup on your kettle's exit port, little trub will transfer. If you rack the wort, keep the siphon on the side.
 
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