Bass Pale Ale Clone

[delcosansgluten]

For my next beer, I want to make my own custom grain bill. I like english ales and already have a delicious brown ale recipe so I decided that a pale ale is in order. Using this traditional grain recipe as the base, here is my proposed grain bill:

• 10# Pale Millet (73%)
• 2# Corn (14.6%)
• 0.5# Crystal Rice (3.7%)
• 0.5# Biscuit Rice (3.7%)
• 0.5# Vienna Millet (3.7%)
• 3 oz Dark Millet (1.4%)
• 2 oz Perle Hop Pellets
• Lallamand Windsor Ale Yeast

Based on the above, how do you think this beer would taste? The grist weighs 13.7 lbs as listed above and the mash and boil can handle 16 lbs loads so I can increase grains if needed. The dark millet is used solely for color, I am hoping it won't impart too much coffee flavor.

 

[skleice]

Creating custom recipes is the best part imo!

The recipe looks fine, but the dark millet does make me nervous. It is very roasty, bitter cacao and coffee, but so is the roasted barley in the linked recipe. I've just never used dark millet in that way, so I can't say how much it will come through. I'd be curious as to hear the results!

 

[dmtaylor]

I don't know much about gluten-free brewing, but I do have a suggestion assuming the millet and rice flavors come anything close to barley malt:

Too much biscuit. I would eliminate it, or take it down to 2-3 oz at most.

Also, Perle is a strange hop choice for a Bass clone. Bass probably uses East Kent Goldings, that is the traditional English hop. If you can't find that, maybe try U.S. Golding, First Gold, Willamette, or Fuggle. Or maybe Saaz would also be interesting in this style.

Windsor is a very low attenuator (i.e., results in high FG of 1.020 or more), without replacement of some of the malt with simple sugar. You can replace some base malt with sugar, or if you want something almost identical but with higher attenuation, try the Lallemand London strain instead (used to be called ESB). It is very closely related to Windsor, but not as poor an attenuator as Windsor. Or you could try a co-pitch of both. Either one will complete the fermentation very fast within 48 hours. And if low attenuation / high FG is really not a goal, try Nottingham yeast instead of either of those.

I would like to eventually experiment more with the millet and gluten-free malts. I do hope and believe that a recipe like this can turn out tasty. Just might need a little extra experimentation to get it just right. Cheers.

 

[glutarded-chris]

I expect you will be pleased with the 3 oz dark roast. Rest looks like a good grain bill mix.

From your previous posts, it looks like you are using the Brewer's Edge system. This batch plan has the percentage of rice a little less than 10%. Have you had good results with your recirculation? I have kept my rice percentage above 25% to keep enough rice hulls in there for recirculation. Not sure how low before recirculation issues can crop up. If it were me, I would displace some of the pale millet with biscuit rice but keep everything else the same (3lb biscuit rice and 7.5lb pale millet). A lot of different opinions out there, but I think I agree with some others that the flavor is a bit better on pale styles with a mix of biscuit rice and pale millet rather than just pale millet as a base. For the base grain, I have been using about 70% pale millet, 30% biscuit.

I think in one of your previous posts you stated you were going to try Ceremix Flex and Ondea Pro enzymes. Are you doing that now with a rising temperature schedule like the video in post #10 of your thread: Stefan Shoemaker's Porter
I have been soooo pleased after switching to that regiment!

 

[delcosansgluten]

I don't know much about gluten-free brewing, but I do have a suggestion assuming the millet and rice flavors come anything close to barley malt:

Too much biscuit. I would eliminate it, or take it down to 2-3 oz at most.

Also, Perle is a strange hop choice for a Bass clone. Bass probably uses East Kent Goldings, that is the traditional English hop. If you can't find that, maybe try U.S. Golding, First Gold, Willamette, or Fuggle. Or maybe Saaz would also be interesting in this style.

Windsor is a very low attenuator (i.e., results in high FG of 1.020 or more), without replacement of some of the malt with simple sugar. You can replace some base malt with sugar, or if you want something almost identical but with higher attenuation, try the Lallemand London strain instead (used to be called ESB). It is very closely related to Windsor, but not as poor an attenuator as Windsor. Or you could try a co-pitch of both. Either one will complete the fermentation very fast within 48 hours. And if low attenuation / high FG is really not a goal, try Nottingham yeast instead of either of those.

I would like to eventually experiment more with the millet and gluten-free malts. I do hope and believe that a recipe like this can turn out tasty. Just might need a little extra experimentation to get it just right. Cheers.

Thanks for the guidance on yeasts!! Given my experience in brewing, i've been trying to use different yeasts with each brew, just to see how they go. I have some M36 Liberty Ale yeast here too. Would copitching that with Windsor be a bad idea?

 

[delcosansgluten]

I expect you will be pleased with the 3 oz dark roast. Rest looks like a good grain bill mix.

From your previous posts, it looks like you are using the Brewer's Edge system. This batch plan has the percentage of rice a little less than 10%. Have you had good results with your recirculation? I have kept my rice percentage above 25% to keep enough rice hulls in there for recirculation. Not sure how low before recirculation issues can crop up. If it were me, I would displace some of the pale millet with biscuit rice but keep everything else the same (3lb biscuit rice and 7.5lb pale millet). A lot of different opinions out there, but I think I agree with some others that the flavor is a bit better on pale styles with a mix of biscuit rice and pale millet rather than just pale millet as a base. For the base grain, I have been using about 70% pale millet, 30% biscuit.

I think in one of your previous posts you stated you were going to try Ceremix Flex and Ondea Pro enzymes. Are you doing that now with a rising temperature schedule like the video in post #10 of your thread: Stefan Shoemaker's Porter
I have been soooo pleased after switching to that regiment!

I have done the increased step mash process for the first time on the British Ordinary Bitter, really excited to try that one!!

Also, I messed up, I have Dark Rice Malt, not Dark Millet. Do you think that would change things up much?

 

[dmtaylor]

Thanks for the guidance on yeasts!! Given my experience in brewing, i've been trying to use different yeasts with each brew, just to see how they go. I have some M36 Liberty Ale yeast here too. Would copitching that with Windsor be a bad idea?

Many people believe M36 already has Windsor within it. M36 is possibly a blend of Windsor and Notty, or Windsor and London, or maybe all three, or maybe something else entirely like S-04 or US-05. I've been trying to narrow this down, with no really good answers quite yet (I'm skeptical and the data is nowhere close to all lining up yet, in my view).

Bottom line: Co-pitch if you want. Or eventually try it in different ways to see what you prefer.

 

[glutarded-chris]

Also, I messed up, I have Dark Rice Malt, not Dark Millet. Do you think that would change things up much?

When adding roasted grain, I prefer rice over millet, so my opinion is you are better off using the dark rice. I think the rice hulls behave more like barley than the millet with respect to roasting so the roasting flavor etc. come through better.

 

[delcosansgluten]

I expect you will be pleased with the 3 oz dark roast. Rest looks like a good grain bill mix.

From your previous posts, it looks like you are using the Brewer's Edge system. This batch plan has the percentage of rice a little less than 10%. Have you had good results with your recirculation? I have kept my rice percentage above 25% to keep enough rice hulls in there for recirculation. Not sure how low before recirculation issues can crop up. If it were me, I would displace some of the pale millet with biscuit rice but keep everything else the same (3lb biscuit rice and 7.5lb pale millet). A lot of different opinions out there, but I think I agree with some others that the flavor is a bit better on pale styles with a mix of biscuit rice and pale millet rather than just pale millet as a base. For the base grain, I have been using about 70% pale millet, 30% biscuit.

I think in one of your previous posts you stated you were going to try Ceremix Flex and Ondea Pro enzymes. Are you doing that now with a rising temperature schedule like the video in post #10 of your thread: Stefan Shoemaker's Porter
I have been soooo pleased after switching to that regiment!

Chris - I realized I never answered this question you had earlier. I am generous with my rice hull additions so ive been lucky and not had recirculation issues. One brew, before I had the 1000 micron screen, the pump did get clogged but I am attributing that to not having a suitable screen for GF grains and not down to grain bill.

 

[delcosansgluten]

Also, Perle is a strange hop choice for a Bass clone. Bass probably uses East Kent Goldings, that is the traditional English hop. If you can't find that, maybe try U.S. Golding, First Gold, Willamette, or Fuggle. Or maybe Saaz would also be interesting in this style.

Taylor - fair points, the recipe I used as a base called for Challenger and North Down hops, both of which were not on GFHB.com. So I used this substitute chart and found that Perle does a good job.

Hop Substitution Guide - Beer Knowledge Grainfather Community

We've put together this helpful Hop Substitution Guide to help you find the right substitution hops for your home brewed beer.

grainfather.com

 

[delcosansgluten]

Yesterday I went and brewed the Bass Pale Ale clone. I followed GlutardedChris' advice and went with more Biscuit rice and decided to go with Nottingham Ale Yeast. Here is the grain bill and some shots.

8# Pale Millet
2# Corn
2# Biscuit Rice 15L
1# Biscuit Rice 4L
0.68#. Vienna Millet
4.51oz Dark Rice Malt

 

[delcosansgluten]

Bottled this batch yesterday, hyper vigilant on sanitization, two week countdown to try these. Now is when it get really exciting.

 

[glutarded-chris]

Thanks for posting!
I have to ask... in the bottle picture, the center cabinet door looks like the bottom edge is cut at a weird angle. Is that an optical illusion? It makes the picture look photo-shopped.

 

[delcosansgluten]

Thanks for posting!
I have to ask... in the bottle picture, the center cabinet door looks like the bottom edge is cut at a weird angle. Is that an optical illusion? It makes the picture look photo-shopped.

my house was built in 1920 and the previous owner remodeled in the 1970’s, so nothing is level lol.

 

[delcosansgluten]

Cracked this batch open yesterday and it did not disappoint. First and foremost there was no off flavor like the British Ordinary Bitter I made. This beer tastes really good, I think color wise it matches Bass Pale Ale. From a flavor standpoint, when I make this again, I will use more Biscuit 4L instead of 15L, will reduce the corn to 1# and will use only 3 oz of dark rice malt. All in all this is a really good beer, looking forward to refining this recipe over time.

 

[skleice]

Looks tasty!

 

[delcosansgluten]

Looks tasty!

Thank you!! The flavor profile has three distinct phases atm. It starts sweet (i think due to the corn) and has a pale ale middle and ends with just a slightly too roasty finish. Making the adjustments I described above should turn this into a regular beer in my rotation.