Basic Brutus Questions

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Bru

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Can someone please tell me :
Why the need for the temperature gauges ? The temp controllers display the temperature.

Do you mash in with cold water and then direct fire to desired temp or do you preheat strike water ?
 
Can someone please tell me :
Why the need for the temperature gauges ? The temp controllers display the temperature.

Do you mash in with cold water and then direct fire to desired temp or do you preheat strike water ?

The Blichmann kettles come complete with thermometers, sight glasses, valves and lids. These are standard equipment and not optional AFAIK.

You can do the mash in either way. I brew on a psuedo Brutus. IOW, it's a semi-automatic RIMS that functions similarly. I typically mash-in at 98F for a Beta Glucan rest then ramp up to the scarification rest(s) using direct heat from start to finish. So yes, I pre-heat the strike water prior to dough in. Sometimes I shoot straight for the 150F or so sacc temp and then I don't have to ramp up as I will be there from the git-go. Then it's just a matter of maintaining that temp for an hour or so. It's a step mash vs single infusion thing and there's no consensus on the best way to go about it. The beauty of a RIMS or HERMS is that you have the flexibility to ramp up temps if desired, but you can also opt not to if you want.
 
I don't trust the bi-metal dial thermometers. I'm done with them forever. They should be optional on the Blichmanns. JMO...nothing more.
 
I don't have thermometers on my converted kegs. I have temperature probes in each and rely on a BCS460 for the display and the added benefit of data logging.

So I can easily do things like:
RIMS_Heater1.JPG
 
I agree, they are about as worthless as a bewb on a man. I put a thermocouple in place of mine and its easily calibrated and works like a champ.

+1 That's what I did too. I bought an expensive dial thermometer that I could not keep in calibration. It was off considerably and inconsistent throughout the scale. It's a paperweight now.
 
I disagree. You may not need them on all your vessels, but I would recommend one on the mash tun. When I first started using my Brutus design, I found that I was getting different temp readings between my Love controller and the Blichmann temp guage.

It ended up that my flow rate was too slow, and I needed more rice hulls to allow an easier filter through the false bottom. Once I fixed that, I saw my temps re-allign.

So it may not be needed, but the right tools help you to quickly find a problem and fix it before you ruin a batch of beer and 6 weeks of waiting.
 
I disagree. You may not need them on all your vessels, but I would recommend one on the mash tun. When I first started using my Brutus design, I found that I was getting different temp readings between my Love controller and the Blichmann temp guage.

It ended up that my flow rate was too slow, and I needed more rice hulls to allow an easier filter through the false bottom. Once I fixed that, I saw my temps re-allign.

So it may not be needed, but the right tools help you to quickly find a problem and fix it before you ruin a batch of beer and 6 weeks of waiting.

IMO, the right tool would be a digital thermocouple type thermometer and not a bi-metal dial type, but that's JMO as usual. You may have lucked out and got a dial thermometer that is accurate. I wasn't so lucky with mine.
 
Sorry, I was not saying that the dial or the digital was better. Just that measuring temperatures at mulitple points on my system has helped my brewing.
 
Sorry, I was not saying that the dial or the digital was better. Just that measuring temperatures at mulitple points on my system has helped my brewing.

No problem and I went through essentially the same experience you described. I use a digital thermocouple thermometer with the probe in a thermowell. I have the thermowell mounted vertically above my MT and extending down into the grain bed. That is my governing temp guide. The controller probe is mounted to the pump output from the MT. I make adjustments on the controller based on what the thermometer is reading in the grain bed. I just keep an eye on what the controller temp shows for the wort return temperature and adjust the flame level on the burner depending on whether I am ramping up or just maintaining the mash temps. It takes very little heat to maintain the grain bed temps.
 
I have dials on all three of my keggles, and they're completely pointless. As soon as I can figure out if I'm getting my fittings welded or not, I'm yanking them and replacing them with thermowells.

I have the same issue with sightglasses - I don't see the point. If you're filling from a hose or something, then sure. But I'm measuring my water beforehand (Ricand convinced me to switch from tap water to building from RO) and pouring from 5 gallon water jugs, so... I already know how much is in my mash tun, and I know how much is in my HLT!
 
I have dials on all three of my keggles, and they're completely pointless. As soon as I can figure out if I'm getting my fittings welded or not, I'm yanking them and replacing them with thermowells.

I have the same issue with sightglasses - I don't see the point. If you're filling from a hose or something, then sure. But I'm measuring my water beforehand (Ricand convinced me to switch from tap water to building from RO) and pouring from 5 gallon water jugs, so... I already know how much is in my mash tun, and I know how much is in my HLT!

+5,000 I'm with you on the sight glasses. I just measure the water depth in my kettles. It's really no trouble at all doing it this way. I know how many gallons per inch of depth for each of my kettles and I fill the HLT to the top most of the time as I'm not worried about having a surplus of sparge water. Anything remaining after the sparge, I just use for clean up. I also prefer a vertically mounted thermowell in the MT. I don't like them coming in from the side. They get in the way when stirring and I'm not at all certain they indicate the real average mash temperature. I like to be able to adjust the thermowell depth for different batch sizes. My theory is that the best position to gauge the average mash temperature is half way from the center to the outside of the MT and half way down from the top. My thinking is that the actual center will be hotter than the outside and the top will be hotter than at the bottom as heat rises. I do a continuous recirc while mashing, but even with that I know there is a significant temperature gradient in the grain bed. I figure the best I can do is try to determine the average temp of the grain bed. So far, it's been working well for me.
 
Not sure how you fellas are using your setups, but you know how I use mine... Be it dials, or digital or each, the way I brew does require gauges in the pots as well as digital temp control. That is how I designed it. I'll say this, I have purchased at least ten Miljoco's over the years and they each are dead on accurate. I was pretty chapped when I let four of them go with my old system before I built Brutus...
 
Not sure how you fellas are using your setups, but you know how I use mine... Be it dials, or digital or each, the way I brew does require gauges in the pots as well as digital temp control. That is how I designed it. I'll say this, I have purchased at least ten Miljoco's over the years and they each are dead on accurate. I was pretty chapped when I let four of them go with my old system before I built Brutus...
I did go with PIDs for my temp control, as opposed to using Love Controllers - the main reason being the two line display, which gives me not only target temp, but current temp.
 
With regards the probe for the controllers - I can see a potential issue when the vessels need cleaning as the probe is connected by its wire to the controller making it impossible to move the vessel without disconnecting the probe. I plan on using a t-peice on a QD before the ball valve to enable the probe to be disconnected (with ball valve assembly attached) for cleaning. I suspect there is a simpler solution - have you got any suggestions ?

Also - Im going to install a level sensor to control the input pump during fly sparging. I can either switch the pump off when level is reached (electrically) or I can use a valve to stop flow while allowing the pump to continue operating - I assume the latter is better than the former - do you agree ?
 
I am in the process of putting together a single tier propane system. I am not going to have any automation. I am beginning to explore temperature probe options and am really confused. Several people have said the bimetal dial ones suck. I really like the digital displays/panels on some of these automated systems, and want something accurate. What options do I have if not using automation? I don't really understand this whole thermowell temp probe thing, and they seem real expensive. I would appreciate anyone who can point me in the right direction.

Thanks
 
With regards the probe for the controllers - I can see a potential issue when the vessels need cleaning as the probe is connected by its wire to the controller making it impossible to move the vessel without disconnecting the probe. I plan on using a t-peice on a QD before the ball valve to enable the probe to be disconnected (with ball valve assembly attached) for cleaning. I suspect there is a simpler solution - have you got any suggestions ?

Also - Im going to install a level sensor to control the input pump during fly sparging. I can either switch the pump off when level is reached (electrically) or I can use a valve to stop flow while allowing the pump to continue operating - I assume the latter is better than the former - do you agree ?

I use M8 connectors on the probe wire (wire & connectors are specific for the type of probe) with a short "pigtail" so I can easily disconnect the wire from the vessel and leave the probe in place.

I think you would be better leaving the pump run the whole time and use a valve to control the output of the pump.

I am in the process of putting together a single tier propane system. I am not going to have any automation. I am beginning to explore temperature probe options and am really confused. Several people have said the bimetal dial ones suck. I really like the digital displays/panels on some of these automated systems, and want something accurate. What options do I have if not using automation? I don't really understand this whole thermowell temp probe thing, and they seem real expensive. I would appreciate anyone who can point me in the right direction.

Thanks

I went down the same path... I have several bi-metal thermometers (cheap ones, no really expensive ones) and none of them read the same. I found you can calibrate them at freezing or boiling and then they are off on the other end of the temp range or they won't stay calibrated.

So then I bought a digital thermometer. Thought the problem was solved until I got moisture in the probe. I new the warning about submerging the probe, but I think humidity from the evaporation got to it. Ended up with a total of 4 digital thermometers.

So I started looking for a GOOD digital thermometer. Realized that for not a lot more money, I could use a PID as a thermometer AND have the option to control the temp when I was ready. It worked great!!

So I built a RIMS tube to control mash temps using the PID, and it worked GREAT.

So I started looking at probes & PIDs for my HLT & BK... realized once again that for not a lot more money, I could get a BCS460. My initial thought was to just use it to replace 4 PIDs and it has the capability to actually log data so you can review your temps after the fact.

Well, I'm now brewing all electric with the BCS controlling heat and pumps. I don't currently have any valves automated but who knows.
 
So I started looking at probes & PIDs for my HLT & BK... realized once again that for not a lot more money, I could get a BCS460. My initial thought was to just use it to replace 4 PIDs and it has the capability to actually log data so you can review your temps after the fact.

Well, I'm now brewing all electric with the BCS controlling heat and pumps. I don't currently have any valves automated but who knows.

So what kind of money is a BCS460 system?
 
So what kind of money is a BCS460 system?

To just monitor the process(es), the BCS is $187 and each temp probe is $15 (the BCS460 can support 4 temp probes).

So $187 + $60 / 4 = $61.75 per probe.
I have a probe in my HLT, MT, BK, and RIMs tube.

This assumes you have a PC or other interface device that you are willing to have in the brew area.

If you decide to automate, the cost depends on what you want to accomplish and how many safe guards you want to build in.
 
To just monitor the process(es), the BCS is $187 and each temp probe is $15 (the BCS460 can support 4 temp probes).

So $187 + $60 / 4 = $61.75 per probe.
I have a probe in my HLT, MT, BK, and RIMs tube.

This assumes you have a PC or other interface device that you are willing to have in the brew area.

If you decide to automate, the cost depends on what you want to accomplish and how many safe guards you want to build in.

So if I went with the BCS 460 I would be able to upgrade later to full automation? I see they have a BCS462 which is considerably more. I like those temperature probes, no thermowell is needed right? I assume those are considerably more accurate than dial type thermometers. Could you use probes like that with a more inexpensive digital monitoring system? Thanks for the help :mug:, sorry for so many questions.
 
Can someone tell me :
Do you circulate the mash for the entire time of the mash or only when the gas fires ?

The Original Brutus plans shows a simple return pipe in the MLT - is this sufficient for proper mash circulation ? I would have thought a proper fly-sparge manifold is needed to avoid channeling etc (I understand that a proper fly-sparge manifold is used during the sparge - its the mash Im confirming).
Lonnie - I assume you not noticed it makes a difference ?

Once the mash-out is completed and the sparge begins is the heat to the MLT turned off ?
 
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