Basement bar long beer line run

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I built a bar in my basement and want to have my home brews on tap. My chest freezer kegerator will be in the unfinished area of my basement, about 50 feet from the beer tower on top the bar. Here's what I have done. I ran 3" PVC for the freezer to the beer tower area and looped back around to the freezer. The 3 1/2 ID beer lines run through one side of the PVC to the beer tower. My plan is to install a blower fan on the other side of the PVC loop and have it blow into the freezer. The idea is that the fan will cause cold freezer air to be sucked in trough the side of the PVC loop where the beer lines are ran and keep the cool. I also insulated the heck out of all the PVC. Is my idea sound? Do you guys think it will work or can you offer better suggestions?

Thanks!
 

microbusbrewery

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How big of a blower fan are you using? I use a pc fan in my keezer to recirc the air, and it's adequate for moving the air through a 4' section of tubing, but I wouldn't want to try it on 50'. If it were me, I probably would go with a small fountain pump and use it to recirculate chilled glycol from freezer to tower and back.
 

day_trippr

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Actually, he's driving 100 feet of pvc. Hopefully not in the deep South...

Cheers!
 

Rockn_M

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I think for short distances the air from the keezer would work but like day trippr said it's really 100 ft because you have 50 ft to and from the tap. The air would probably warm up by then. Either using glycol or ice water would probably work best. You need something with a bit of mass to keep everything cold by the time it gets to the tap.
 
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I'd plan for micromatic insulated beer line with glycol tubes, then a small pump to push the glycol loop. With a run that long, you are going to have some foamy first/second/... pours. That's just a guess.

Here's a 5-product bundle with 2 for the glycol loop. Click it for the site.

 

microbusbrewery

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Duh, I forgot about the return loop. That would have to be a pretty powerful and probably pretty loud blower. A pond pump with glycol and the product bundle that passedpawn posted would by my setup of choice.
 

Brewerforlife

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How long is the run of beer line's from kegs to tower?? What is the elevation from
keg to tower faucets??? Why use 1/2" ID poly??, unless your a stadium pushing 200+ feet. This will help us better design a balanced system for your set-up. Glycol chilling is probably going too be the only reliable way too properly chill lines evenly from point A to B. I'm not sure how long your pvc tube run is, or how many 90 degree bends you have, but you will need significant air flow(at least 140cfm). If you have a single tube tower, you usually have a tube inside a tube. The inside tube containing lines is connected to fan in keezer, and air forced to tower bottom and returned to keezer in area between the two tubes, making a contiuous recirculating loop of fresh cold air.
When using a dual pedestal tower, you have have the 1st pvc run going to 1st pedestal tower bottom with the beer lines and forced cold air from fan in keezer. The cold air passes thru the length of the tower and returns to keezer thru 2nd pvc run connected at 2nd pedestal bottom, making a continuous loop of recirculating cold air. Hope this helps some. Let us know how its going. Cheers!!
 
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I have 3x 1/2 ID lines run through 50 feet of PVC to the triple tower, then another 50 feet of pvc running back to the freezer. Only the first 50 feet needs to be really chilled. I did insulate the crap out of the PVC. I'm hoping a powerful blower will do the trick. I have been considering purchasing a small air conditioner to keep the lines cool instead of the freezer as well. I'm getting my freezer on Sat. Then I will start the build. I have another thought as well. Connect my homes HVAC duct to the pvc for air conditioning in the summer. Then for the winter, pipe in outside air into the pvc.
 
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The elevation is about 4 feet...but I am going from the freezer through the ceiling, then back down under with my bar and back up to the tower.
 
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I have 3x 1/2 ID lines run through 50 feet of PVC to the triple tower, then another 50 feet of pvc running back to the freezer. Only the first 50 feet needs to be really chilled. I did insulate the crap out of the PVC. I'm hoping a powerful blower will do the trick. I have been considering purchasing a small air conditioner to keep the lines cool instead of the freezer as well. I'm getting my freezer on Sat. Then I will start the build. I have another thought as well. Connect my homes HVAC duct to the pvc for air conditioning in the summer. Then for the winter, pipe in outside air into the pvc.
Why don't you just put a bucket of antifreeze in your freezer and get a $30 aquarium pump and do it the right way? Pushing air is not the right way.
 
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I estimate that in order to fill 100 feet of 3 inch pvc with the lines in there to be 15 to 20 gallons. Do you think a keezer could adequately keep this fluid cool opposed to air? Why antifreeze vs water?
 

Brewerforlife

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You don't push glycol thru the 3" pvc. You pump glycol thru poly tubing foil taped along your beer-line bundle going thru the pvc, usually 3/8". There will be a feed line & a return line along the bundle with a resevoir in the freezer with a pump somewhere in the loop!!
 

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We don't used forced-air for long-draw sytems over20-25 feet long, especially if there are multiple bends. It's just not adequate!!
 

JuanMoore

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I estimate that in order to fill 100 feet of 3 inch pvc with the lines in there to be 15 to 20 gallons. Do you think a keezer could adequately keep this fluid cool opposed to air? Why antifreeze vs water?
To add to what other posters have mentioned, 1/2" ID beer lines are way too large for what you're describing. You should be able to run 1/4" ID beer lines, or 3/8" at the most. At 12 psi you'd end up with a pint fill time of 12 seconds using 1/4" ID line. For 3/8" line you'd actually need a 3/16" ID choker at the end to slow it down enough to get a decent pour.

If it were me, I'd make a DIY trunk line with two 3/8" ID coolant lines, and five 1/4" ID beer lines, essentially just like the picture passedpawn posted above. I know you said 3 beer lines, but you'll be glad for the other two lines in the trunk if you ever decide to expand. I'd run the trunk line inside of the PVC you've already installed. Then I'd fill a bucket with glycol, put it in the bottom of the keezer, and use a pond pump to circulate it through the trunk line.
 

Brewerforlife

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To add to what other posters have mentioned, 1/2" ID beer lines are way too large for what you're describing. You should be able to run 1/4" ID beer lines, or 3/8" at the most. At 12 psi you'd end up with a pint fill time of 12 seconds using 1/4" ID line. For 3/8" line you'd actually need a 3/16" ID choker at the end to slow it down enough to get a decent pour.

If it were me, I'd make a DIY trunk line with two 3/8" ID coolant lines, and five 1/4" ID beer lines, essentially just like the picture passedpawn posted above. I know you said 3 beer lines, but you'll be glad for the other two lines in the trunk if you ever decide to expand. I'd run the trunk line inside of the PVC you've already installed. Then I'd fill a bucket with glycol, put it in the bottom of the keezer, and use a pond pump to circulate it through the trunk line.
Well said!! This is great advice!! The only thing I'm worried about is the temp. of the glycol/water bath, it should be running at 28F-30F to work properly. If my chiller acts up and temp. rises above 35F, I have foaming issue's all the time!!
 

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I dont't now how rich$$$ you are, or willing to spend. you could buy a plug & play glycol power pack for about $650. If you make your own resevoir in keezer. the temp. of 38-42F isnt't cold enough temp of water bath to properly chill trunkline that amount of distance. thats why chillers are run on glycol mix and not just water, so the temp can run below freezing.
 
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Got the loop in place and it actually works! I installed a radon fan for the circulation. I'm reading 45 degrees at the lines exit. A little on the warm side but I'll take it over room temp! 100 feet of PVC with 3x 50 foot beer lines.ImageUploadedByHome Brew1392391721.865005.jpgImageUploadedByHome Brew1392391740.670235.jpgImageUploadedByHome Brew1392391751.914091.jpgImageUploadedByHome Brew1392391764.667797.jpgImageUploadedByHome Brew1392391776.598062.jpgImageUploadedByHome Brew1392391787.834834.jpg


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