Barrel aging (process of developing vanilla) questions

[Stakem]

Let me start off by apologizing, this is going to be long. I have many questions and no matter what keywords I use to search, I seem to come up empty handed with actual results/info/reference no matter where I read/search.

I am curious what experience anyone here has with barrel aging their brew. I am not talking about just using oak chips or cubes in secondary, I mean physically using an oak barrel as a secondary whether it be 50+ gallons or smaller (well specifically I am interested in hearing feedback related to 10 gallon barrels.)

I am completely amazed by commerical brewers who find that wonderful balance of barrel aged properties to base brew character. What I love the most about barrel aged brews is the soft vanilla inclusion, toasted coconut, caramel, etc. you get the idea.

I have done countless batches of homebrew using cubes and chips ranging from half an ounce in a 5 gallon batch to upwards of 3 ounces. Aged in increments of time from only a couple of days to weeks and upwards of 8 months. I seemingly cannot nail down the right balance of the character I am looking for (as listed above, vanilla specifically.)

I acquired 10 gallon oak barrels that previous help apple brandy. Let me tell you, they smell AMAZING. Think caramel candy apples, cinnamon, maple sugar... etc, you get the idea. I brewed 3 big beers that I intend to age back to back to back. Belgian Strong Ale (9.8%), RIS (11%) and Old Ale (13%.)

Last weekend the first beer entered the barrel (the belgian strong.) After only 5 days, I pulled a sample for tasting and was amazed at how quickly the barrel has ravaged the brew. The base beer is completely dominated by harsh wood flavoring. It is oaky with a harsh bitterness and woodsy flavor that completely dominates the base.

I realize that a 10 gallon barrel has significantly more surface contact area than a typical sized barrel. However, what I am curious about is this harsh character. Is just a young ackward stage that the beer is going through and it will continue to meld and mellow with age or is this something I need to remove from the barrel immediately and start to think of ways to 'wash' the inside of the barrel with warm water to remove any more harsh tannins and flavoring that is residing in the barrel. It was my intention to use this barrel "wet" so that i was not washing away any of the amazing smelling apple brandy character this brew had... but now after tasting it, I am looking for any and all advice from people with barrel aged experience.

 

[Nateo]

If you want vanilla flavor, why not just add vanilla?

I've found cubes to work well enough for me that I haven't wanted to mess with a barrel. I usually use 1oz/5gal for about 2 mo.

The type of oak used will affect the flavors. American oak has a lot more vanillin than other varieties, although Hungarian has more than French.

 

[dedhedjed]

Was it a Belgian Golden Strong? Compared to a stout or even an old ale it would seem to have a more delicate flavor profile that a fresh barrel would tend to overwhelm. The brandy flavor will definitely fade from the barrel. I have a five gallon whiskey barrel. The barleywine I aged in it has stripped most of the whiskey flavor, and the old ale I have in there now is picking up more of the vanilla. If I were you I'd probably pull the Belgian out and let it bulk age in carboys and go ahead and toss the stout in there. I bet it will stand up better and the harshness should mellow from the Belgian with bulk aging...

 

[emetcalf]

I have only tried a couple barrel aged beers, but the way I understand it is only 33% is aged in barrels and the other 67% of the beer is aged normally, then they are blended (I think)

 

[dwarven_stout]

Last weekend the first beer entered the barrel (the belgian strong.) After only 5 days, I pulled a sample for tasting and was amazed at how quickly the barrel has ravaged the brew. The base beer is completely dominated by harsh wood flavoring. It is oaky with a harsh bitterness and woodsy flavor that completely dominates the base.

I realize that a 10 gallon barrel has significantly more surface contact area than a typical sized barrel. However, what I am curious about is this harsh character. Is just a young ackward stage that the beer is going through and it will continue to meld and mellow with age or is this something I need to remove from the barrel immediately and start to think of ways to 'wash' the inside of the barrel with warm water to remove any more harsh tannins and flavoring that is residing in the barrel. It was my intention to use this barrel "wet" so that i was not washing away any of the amazing smelling apple brandy character this brew had... but now after tasting it, I am looking for any and all advice from people with barrel aged experience.

My club has done a couple of 60gal barrel beers. The most recent was a RIS in a bourbon barrel- we tasted it after a month and I thought it was destroyed. Oak bomb is too mild of a description.

That beer is now about 5 months in the barrel- we tasted some last night, and the oak has subsided to a good level. In addition, I can taste vanilla, spice, tobacco, leather- all the nicer things I wanted from the oak.

YMMV, of course, but I would guess that your beer may well follow a similar path. A lot of the harshest compounds in the wood are the quickest to be extracted, and a lot of the complexity takes time to develop.

 

[Stakem]

If you want vanilla flavor, why not just add vanilla?

I've found cubes to work well enough for me that I haven't wanted to mess with a barrel. I usually use 1oz/5gal for about 2 mo.

The type of oak used will affect the flavors. American oak has a lot more vanillin than other varieties, although Hungarian has more than French.

I don't know why but your response actually angers me.

Was it a Belgian Golden Strong? Compared to a stout or even an old ale it would seem to have a more delicate flavor profile that a fresh barrel would tend to overwhelm. The brandy flavor will definitely fade from the barrel. I have a five gallon whiskey barrel. The barleywine I aged in it has stripped most of the whiskey flavor, and the old ale I have in there now is picking up more of the vanilla. If I were you I'd probably pull the Belgian out and let it bulk age in carboys and go ahead and toss the stout in there. I bet it will stand up better and the harshness should mellow from the Belgian with bulk aging...

Yes, it was a golden strong. Your thought process is pretty much in line with what I was thinking but I am wondering if I was wrong in removing it so quickly. I am still wondering if the harshness of the barrel is just a young phase the beer goes through before it starts to develop the pleasant character. You mention an old ale of yours picking up vanilla. How long did it take for that to evolve?

My club has done a couple of 60gal barrel beers. The most recent was a RIS in a bourbon barrel- we tasted it after a month and I thought it was destroyed. Oak bomb is too mild of a description.

That beer is now about 5 months in the barrel- we tasted some last night, and the oak has subsided to a good level. In addition, I can taste vanilla, spice, tobacco, leather- all the nicer things I wanted from the oak.

YMMV, of course, but I would guess that your beer may well follow a similar path. A lot of the harshest compounds in the wood are the quickest to be extracted, and a lot of the complexity takes time to develop.

Thank you for posting this. This is actually the type of information/experience I was looking for and answers some of my questions. I have multiple barrels so this creates an interesting opportunity for me to get some concrete evidence/hand on experience regarding the character that can be extracted verse time spent in the barrel.

 

[Nateo]

I don't know why but your response actually angers me.

That's an odd thing to say.

 

[zachssoojdm]

I plan on getting a 5 gal barrel and doing a DIPA first real quick to pull the first explosion of oak, then a belgian strong, before going sour and keeping it sour.