Barke Vienna, Barke Pils or….?

[rmr9]

I’ve been thinking a lot lately about my brewing and I feel like I’ve had a few batches in a row that just haven’t come out the way I’ve wanted. They’re drinkable and good, but not what I intended. I’m thinking of simplifying things a bit by buying a single sack of grain and just brewing with that for a while. Pick one yeast strain and maybe alter hops or water chemistry etc. Get back to simple basics.

That brings me to this: I’ve been really into the Barke malts lately so I’m thinking of getting a sack of either the Pils or Vienna. Any thoughts? I’m also open to the idea of other malts as well!

 

[VikeMan]

The pilsner malt would be more versatile if you were to decide to unsimplify before the sack is used up.

 

[rmr9]

That’s a good point, the Pils would definitely serve more as a “blank canvas” good call!

 

[Protos]

I was thinking over a similar problem once. I choose Vienna. And I was glad I choose it over Pilsner.
I was thinking like if I limit myself to just one grain, I definitely want to have something more flavourful than Pilsner but not as characterful as Munich.
After four months of the Vienna Only diet I relapsed and now I have 70 (seventy) kinds of different malts in my closet. Some in very small quantities, and some are past their BBF dates, but whatever, it feels nice to have them all and to know I may brew whatever I want at any moment.
I still have some of that Vienna sack (along with several Viennas from other producers) and I love it. The best Vienna Malt I've tried was Stamag Wiener Malz from Austria. With it, I made the best beer I've ever made: a Krennmair's 1870 Wiener Lagerbier clone, triple decoction and all.
Choose Vienna, if you must to choose just one.
Be ready though to stuff your closet with everything else when your Vienna Only fasting is over

UPD:
I'd suggest not to limit yourself to just one malt. Limit to two: Barke Vienna AND English Pale.
That will suffice to brew a wast majority of the world beers: Vienna for everything Continental and Pale for everything English/American.
However close they are colourwise, Vienna and English Pale aren't interchangable.

 

[rmr9]

I was thinking over a similar problem once. I choose Vienna. And I was glad I choose it over Pilsner.
I was thinking like if I limit myself to just one grain, I definitely want to have something more flavourful than Pilsner but not as characterful as Munich.
After four months of the Vienna Only diet I relapsed and now I have 70 (seventy) kinds of different malts in my closet. Some in very small quantities, and some are past their BBF dates, but whatever, it feels nice to have them all and to know I may brew whatever I want at any moment.
I still have some of that Vienna sack (along with several Viennas from other producers) and I love it. The best Vienna Malt I've tried was Stamag Wiener Malz from Austria. With it, I made the best beer I've ever made: a Krennmair's 1870 Wiener Lagerbier clone, triple decoction and all.
Choose Vienna, if you must to choose just one.
Be ready though to stuff your closet with everything else when your Vienna Only fasting is over

UPD:
I'd suggest not to limit yourself to just one malt. Limit to two: Barke Vienna AND English Pale.
That will suffice to brew a wast majority of the world beers: Vienna for everything Continental and Pale for everything English/American.
However close they are colourwise, Vienna and English Pale aren't interchangable.

Thanks for the input! The part of me leaning towards Vienna was thinking it might have enough character to stand alone a little easier than the Pils would. I’m sure both would be delicious.

Ha! I was on an English beer kick for a long time when I got my cask and beer engine so I’ve shifted myself towards German lagers and altbier!

 

[kingmatt]

Give Weyermann Eraclea Pilsner malt as shot. I got some from NHC this year and loved it. It has a lovely sweet finish you won't find in most other Pilsner malts.

 

[Protos]

The part of me leaning towards Vienna was thinking it might have enough character to stand alone a little easier than the Pils would.

Yeah, if Vienna is the only grain you use, it allows a bit more versatility than Pilsner.
Vienna sits exactly on the middle of the base malts' colour and flavour range, so you, by controlling gravity, attenuation and caramelization, can nudge your beer either to the lighter Pilsner side or to the chewier Munchner side. With Pilsner, you are more tightly tied to the lighter side of the range.
Those were my considerations when I was making my choise.
My only mistake was that I excluded English Pale Ale too. I missed it a lot afterwards.

 

[rmr9]

Give Weyermann Eraclea Pilsner malt as shot. I got some from NHC this year and loved it. It has a lovely sweet finish you won't find in most other Pilsner malts.

I’ve heard of eraclea before but I’m not sure where to get it. Is it newer to the US market?

 

[kingmatt]

Northern Brewer and Midwest sell it (with free shipping on full sacks) and you can probably get it at you LHBS or they can order it for you.

 

[rmr9]

I didn’t realize NB shipped full sacks free, I’ll have to keep that in mind. Their prices for sacks aren’t terrible really.

 

[Beermeister32]

Weyermann Barke Pilsner

 

[rmr9]

Decisions decisions….if I went with Barke Pils I feel I would have to figure out some way to pull off a decoction using my robobrew and another burner or something

 

[rmr9]

Off topic but it’s another aspect of my “simplification” idea. I’d like to stick to one yeast strain and I’m fairly set on lagers. Hopefully I can overbuild starters and harvest yeast to get through the sack with 1 or 2 vials overall. My question now becomes: Ayinger or Augustiner yeast?

 

[rmr9]

I was thinking over a similar problem once. I choose Vienna. And I was glad I choose it over Pilsner.
I was thinking like if I limit myself to just one grain, I definitely want to have something more flavourful than Pilsner but not as characterful as Munich.
After four months of the Vienna Only diet I relapsed and now I have 70 (seventy) kinds of different malts in my closet. Some in very small quantities, and some are past their BBF dates, but whatever, it feels nice to have them all and to know I may brew whatever I want at any moment.
I still have some of that Vienna sack (along with several Viennas from other producers) and I love it. The best Vienna Malt I've tried was Stamag Wiener Malz from Austria. With it, I made the best beer I've ever made: a Krennmair's 1870 Wiener Lagerbier clone, triple decoction and all.
Choose Vienna, if you must to choose just one.
Be ready though to stuff your closet with everything else when your Vienna Only fasting is over

UPD:
I'd suggest not to limit yourself to just one malt. Limit to two: Barke Vienna AND English Pale.
That will suffice to brew a wast majority of the world beers: Vienna for everything Continental and Pale for everything English/American.
However close they are colourwise, Vienna and English Pale aren't interchangable.

How is Krennmair’s book? I had it in my Amazon cart a while back but passed on it at the time.

 

[Joshua Hughes]

Great book imo

 

[VikeMan]

Limit to two: Barke Vienna AND English Pale.
That will suffice to brew a wast majority of the world beers: Vienna for everything Continental and Pale for everything English/American.

Well, sort of. I wouldn't attempt an authentic German Pils or Czech Pils with Vienna (in any amount, let alone 100%). And while those are only 2 styles, they do account for a lot of the world's beers.

 

[Beermeister32]

WLP833 German Bock. Ayinger.

 

[Protos]

How is Krennmair’s book?

It's priceless. It's the same for German & Austrian styles homebrewing what Ron Pattinson's blog and books are for English styles. Worth every penny spent on it. It contains beautiful recipes from the 1850s-1870s. The REAL Wiener, Weiß, Dunkel, Oktoberfest (a Vienna/Saazer SMASH, btw), Salvator and a plethora of more obscure styles, like Göse, Brown beer, Hornbier, Kottbusser etc. The only thing I miss in the book is Pilsener and Helles. I don't know why they weren't included.

I have also an earlier German version of this book. It contains additional very interesting recipes (no Pilseners, again), including some English (as early as 1760), Swedish (a kind of Kuit) and several Belgian (Hoegaarden from 1831, anyone).

Last winter I brewed a Wiener and a Dunkel from this book, was astonished how good they came out, and this winter will repeat both and try the rest of the recipes.

 

[rmr9]

WLP833 German Bock. Ayinger.

I used this for a dunkel not long ago, with a good starter at 48 degrees it ripped through fermentation in about a week, so a good experience there. Curious about how Omega’s Ayinger isolate (OYL-111) compares to white labs 833

 

[Beermeister32]

Dunno. Good experience with WLP833 however.

 

[Protos]

Well, sort of. I wouldn't attempt an authentic German Pils or Czech Pils with Vienna (in any amount, let alone 100%). And while those are only 2 styles, they do account for a lot of the world's beers.

Hmmm... From my humble point of view, I believe it's possible to brew a pretty close "Pils" approximation from Vienna Malt.
Making highly-fermentable wort, employ the shortest boil possible to avoid caramelization, mighty hop load to mask the toasty flavour, a tiny bit estery Czech yeast to mask it further... Not abiding to RHG and going the Carlsberg/Heineken/Stella way makes things even easier: some 20% Maize or Dextrose addition would drive the Vienna right into the max Pilsener colour range.
Voila, you've got a beer surely closer to a Pilsener than to a Wiener or Märzen!
Then you might brew a Märzen proper and a true Helles and a Modern Festbier, then a Heller Bock, all with the same grain, which would be harder to achieve with just Pilsener. Then you cross the border into the Belgian realm and enjoy even more possibilities there

On a desert island with the only malt available, I'd definitely prefer to have Wiener over Pilsener.

 

[rmr9]

The more I think about it the more I’m leaning towards Vienna. It might not have the “blank canvas” appeal of Pils but I think it would work well for things like hop comparisons while providing a good malt background. I’m also digging the idea of a Vienna SMaSH with either hallertauer or saaz hops.

I think I might give the Omega Ayinger strain a go. The 200 billion cell count will make overbuilding a starter to save for future batches easier.

 

[Beermeister32]

I’ll stick with my Weyermann Barke Pils and WLP833…. Prost!

 

[rmr9]

I’ll stick with my Weyermann Barke Pils and WLP833…. Prost!
View attachment 784514

That does look pretty good! Maybe limiting myself to just one of the malts is a pointless exercise in self control. It’s just 2 sacks instead of 1…

 

[BrewSomeMore]

Why limit? Get Pilsner and Vienna, the best of both worlds!

 

[rmr9]

Just gotta convince the wife that I need 110lbs of grain and 2 big Vittles vaults to keep them fresh! Harder things have been done in history!

 

[BrewSomeMore]

I have several 5 gallon food grade buckets with gamma lids. When I run out of room in buckets, I stick leftover bags in a large Sterlite container. I haven't noticed any difference between grain in bucket vs. Sterlite. Both are in my basement with a dehumidifier.

 

[rmr9]

I have several 5 gallon food grade buckets with gamma lids. When I run out of room in buckets, I stick leftover bags in a large Sterlite container. I haven't noticed any difference between grain in bucket vs. Sterlite. Both are in my basement with a dehumidifier.

How many pounds will a 5 gallon bucket hold? Might be a cheaper option than the Vittles vault

 

[passedpawn]

How many pounds will a 5 gallon bucket hold? Might be a cheaper option than the Vittles vault

1# = 1 quart. 4 qts in a gallon. So, 20# (ish) is your answer.

 

[rmr9]

Ahh makes sense…I didn’t make the logical step between volume of grain to weight! Thanks!

 

[Protos]

Maybe limiting myself to just one of the malts is a pointless exercise in self control.

That's true.
My own takeaway from a similar experiment on self-restriction was that it was too much of a Taliban thing to limit myself to just one grain and it felt a bit silly.
In my book, minimalism is a virtue. After all, that's how beers have been brewed for centuries. Back then, they had no 50 shades of fancy Crystals and Biscuits we have today.
When surfing recipes for my next brew, I pass by any which includes more than 3 malts. There might be cases where more than 3 malts (or more than 2 hops) are REALLY needed for a recipe (even 5-malt grists are not ruled out in exceptonal cases) but there must be very serious grounding behind each extra grain or hop introduction.

You can brew any traditional beer having just 4 malts in your closet: Pilsener, Münchner, Pale Ale and Black Patent.
And just 4 essential hops: Kent Golding, Hallertauer Mittelfrüh, Saazer and Cascade.
You don't even need any Wiener, since you can approximate it with Pilsen+Munich. And you don't need Crystal at all, even in English beers ("Especially in English beers" - the knowledgeable would add).

That's what might really be called a wise limiting without compromissing the process.
A "Wiener Pils" is possible but it's just a compromise, of course.

However, if you're set on the Single Malt Challenge, then I'd suggest Vienna.