Banana Phenols in Hefe

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mhot55

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BYO had an article an isue or 2 back regarding maximizing the banana aroma/ taste in a hefe. I just completed a batch and 4 days into bottle conditioning (decent carbonation considering it was only going 4 days) and I must confirm that this technique described in the article produces what it sets out to do. You would think there was 10 lbs of bananas in the fermenter. WOW. It actually may be too much banana. the recipe is 65% to 30% wheat to pilsner, some caramel/ munich 5%. the mash schedule seems to be the key:

Mash in @ 2.5 qt/lb of grain at 84*, remove thick 25% grist and heat it to 144*. Hold thick portion at 144* for 30 minutes. Combine both to get 104*. Heat this to 162 and hold for another 30 minutes. Heat to 170 then lauter.
Fermentation temp was 65-68*. Used WY3056 (bavarian wheat yeast)

Body seems fine so far. nice gold color. clove or bubble gum reminiscent of hefes doesn't seem to be present, but it is liquid banana. Needs another 10 days to fully carb/ mature.
 
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mhot55

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used routine starter. more than a pint, less than a quart.
PS- I hate pedantic a**holes. I sorta knew i used the wrong word. And, yes, I know "sorta" is not a word.
 

Cpt_Kirks

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Under pitch, ferment warm. Daiquiri time.

I like a little banana in my Hefe, but not much. It should balance.

My latest batch seems to have hit it square on. A little clove, a little banana.

Just right.

:ban:
 

Malticulous

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My best Hefeweizens are triple decotions with rest at 100, 122 and 150 then a mashout. Pitch a active shaken one liter starter in the low sixties and let it ferment at 67-68. Mostly banana with some clove, often with some tartness. Carbed 3.5-4 volumes.

I read the article and was somewhat dumbfounded by it; I've never had a problem getting banana with a good hefeweizen yeast. Even a single infusion will do it just fine.
 

Schlenkerla

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According to Jamil Zainecheff, temp has the most influence. 60-64 results in a nice clove and banana blend. Temps like 64-68 result in significant banana esters. Assuming you used something like wyeast 3068. IMHO - using smack-pack, no starter, at 1.040 or less is aok. It's worked well for me.
 
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mhot55

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Let me clarify. The article advised using the techniques in order to get A LOT of banana ESTERS (even a dopey bastard like me learns from his mistakes). I know the ferment temp and under-pitching, even certain strains of yeast can cause banana esters. The article described a certain sugar (i don't feel like re-checking, pardon me again if i got the wrong word) that was produced following the steps which attributed to banana flavor. I too have made hefes before, balancing the clove/bubble gum/ banana esters. I am just saying that this technique REALLY produced a big banana flavor.
 

Schlenkerla

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Shame on BYO for steering people to the extreme for a style. IMHO -Lots of banana in a hefe is not that good, unless you want the funk that comes with it aroma and flavor-wise.

I often dislike their PM recipes, since they tweak the typical extracts weights vs the grain weights. Grain being easier to tweak.
 

Pezman1

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Shame on BYO for steering people to the extreme for a style. IMHO -Lots of banana in a hefe is not that good, unless you want the funk that comes with it aroma and flavor-wise.

I often dislike their PM recipes, since they tweak the typical extracts weights vs the grain weights. Grain being easier to tweak.
Then, on the other hand, people seem to gravitate to the exremes. There are alot of people around who think there is nothing wrong with a nice, balanced IPA that another pound of hops couldn't fix. :drunk:

However, being almost painfully traditionalist in all things, I agree with you about style parameters.
Pez.
 

kidsmoke

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I could see this working pretty well in a dunkelweiss with some further emphasis on the chocolate side of things. I figure chocolate + banana go pretty well together...
 
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mhot55

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dunkel weiss may be goodfor this like you said. But i just want to give my results in this- once again VERY BIG BaNANA PROFILE. Honestly would rather have traditional balanced hefe than a over the top banana hefe. I posted this to give my results of an experiment. Although i gotta say my wife says it tastes like a beer but to me it tastes like a banana daquari. maybe i'm wrong
 
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mhot55

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"Thick" meaning decocting and portion of the mash that is , well, thick. In other words don't just scoop out part of the mash from the top (mainly water). Dig down deep and pull out grain with water (like an oatmeal consistency). I never worry about getting too "thick" because it is easier to scorch when doing the decoction method.
Just finished another hefeweizen couple weeks back (it is summer) using this method again- prob my best beer to date- keep fermentation temp around 62-65 with simplistic grain bill and this beer turns out awesome.
 

Walter38

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OK, I'm not familiar with doing a decoction mash, so I'll have to do a little research there. Thanks for the clarification!
 
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