Back sweeten cider + bottle priming

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crash_cohen

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Hi new to the forum, also new to cider making just started this fall. Made an apple press and grinder with a friend of mine.
Anyway my cider is done fermenting and I am wanting to back sweeten some of it as well as bottle prime it for carbonation. I would rather not use splenda or any kind of artificial sweetener of that kind, so I bought a wine conditioner from my local brewery store made by Global Vintners which she said I could use to back sweeten before bottling but as I was looking at the ingredients in the conditioner they include liquid invert sugar as well as potassium sorbate. If I use anything with potassium sorbate in it will it not kill off the yeast making it impossible for me to bottle prime with dextrose.?
 
yes sorbate will kill yeast and not allow for bottle conditioning, maybe they thought you wanted to bottle still cider?

theres a sticky about cider pasteurization that allows for sweet ciders you should take a look
 
I think you're stuck with either backsweeting with non fermentable sugar then carbing (naturally) or backsweeting with fermentable sugar but you'll have still.

I'm also in this dilemma; either I use one of my kegs to force carb (allowing natural sugar to backsweeten) or if I prefer to bottle I'll just use splenda.

I'm curious, is there a weird taste when using Splenda that you're aware of?
 
I think you're stuck with either backsweeting with non fermentable sugar then carbing (naturally) or backsweeting with fermentable sugar but you'll have still.

I'm also in this dilemma; either I use one of my kegs to force carb (allowing natural sugar to backsweeten) or if I prefer to bottle I'll just use splenda.

I'm curious, is there a weird taste when using Splenda that you're aware of?

Two easy options to consider when using sugars or fruit juice to backsweeten bottle conditioned and carbonated cider:

1. Check the carbonation by opening a bottle every few days and when the carbonation is at the right level, stop the fermentation by chilling it (you'll need to keep the bottles in the fridge, though)

or

2. Do the same as above, but instead of chilling the bottles, heat pasteurize them on the stove by immersing them in a 190 degree hot water bath for 10 minutes.
 
I tried sweetening with splenda as I would really like to bottle carb, added 2tsp of splenda to 750ml of cider. Just enough to bring the sweetness up a little and I didnt seem to get the artificial sweetener taste, although im not sure what the result would be with adding more to get a sweeter cider..or how it will taste with some age.
 
Two easy options to consider when using sugars or fruit juice to backsweeten bottle conditioned and carbonated cider:

1. Check the carbonation by opening a bottle every few days and when the carbonation is at the right level, stop the fermentation by chilling it (you'll need to keep the bottles in the fridge, though)

or

2. Do the same as above, but instead of chilling the bottles, heat pasteurize them on the stove by immersing them in a 190 degree hot water bath for 10 minutes.

This sounds like it could work, have to play around the with the amount of sugar I use to sweeten and time to allow for carbing as it would need the balance of making it sweetened enough while allowing for enough carbonation, the fridge method would work but as I dont want to rely on storing in the fridge at all times I think the heat pasteurizing may be the next best thing, bringing the temperature up in the bottle causing gases to expand in the bottle wont create to much pressure though??
 
This sounds like it could work, have to play around the with the amount of sugar I use to sweeten and time to allow for carbing as it would need the balance of making it sweetened enough while allowing for enough carbonation, the fridge method would work but as I dont want to rely on storing in the fridge at all times I think the heat pasteurizing may be the next best thing, bringing the temperature up in the bottle causing gases to expand in the bottle wont create to much pressure though??

Crash, I back sweetened mine pretty heavily because as Pappers says, I have bit of a sweet tooth. When I bottled them, I made sure I got at least 4 small half bottles for testing. I kept a close eye on them and after 4 1/2 days they were ready to pastuerize. I didn't find that heating them created to much pressure at all, in face I was more concern with the beer bottles not being thick enough (I am used to mead bottles). It was easy peesy. I am gonna test another one come Friday night because I am taking a six pack or two to a party on Saturday. Using Pappers pastuerization method was a no brainer.
 
Careful, I've done the same thing, used test bottles, then pasteurized, and still got champagne. Had I let them age longer, they probably would have exploded. One of them actually knocked the flip-top off the bottle and across the room, wire and all, when I opened it.


My best cider to-date was juice+yeast, splenda and priming sugar for bottling.
 
Careful, I've done the same thing, used test bottles, then pasteurized, and still got champagne. Had I let them age longer, they probably would have exploded. One of them actually knocked the flip-top off the bottle and across the room, wire and all, when I opened it.


My best cider to-date was juice+yeast, splenda and priming sugar for bottling.

You didin't reach full pasteurization then. Yeast was still alive somehow.


also note: when pasteurizing its best to put a rag in the pot of 190degree water to put a barrier between the bottles and the bottom of the pot.
 
so I tried bottle carbing and got no carbonation, wondering if I racked/cleared all of the yeast out of it as it is very clear. So my question is would I be able to sprinkle a small amount of yeast into each bottle along with the sugar to get it to carbonate?
 
so I tried bottle carbing and got no carbonation, wondering if I racked/cleared all of the yeast out of it as it is very clear. So my question is would I be able to sprinkle a small amount of yeast into each bottle along with the sugar to get it to carbonate?

yes but do the calculation. Sorry no idea what the calculation would be :(
 
Not trying to hijack this thread, but I have a question.

I am new to bottling. All my ciders before were in the still stage.

I recently found a guy who gave me 20 750ml wine bottles. I will buy corks and a corker from my LHBS.

Can someone walk me through priming these? I have my cider in a 1 gallon jug right now.

So does it go like this (and if someone could fill in the blanks, that would be great)
1) add in ______ fermentable sugar to the gallon jug and mix
2) fill wine bottles with cider mixture + sugar
3) Cork bottle
4) wait _______ days untill carbonation is right
5) Put bottles in a 190 degree bath for 10 minutes
6) let age and enjoy a carbonated cider?


I am really new to bottling. Sorry if this was an annoying post, please bear with me
 
those wine bottles are not meant for pressure. probably the corks will pop or worse the bottles will explode. invest in a crown capper and get some beer bottles, or plan on a still cider
 
If I back sweeten with Apple concentrate, it will also carbonate my cider as well correct? Or do I need to add priming suger?
 
It will do both, sweeten and carbonate. You will need to pasteurize when the bottles have reached the proper carbonation level.
 
You can also backsweeten using a non fermentable sweetener and bottle prime with a fermentable rather than pasteurizing.
 
If I back sweeten with Apple concentrate, it will also carbonate my cider as well correct? Or do I need to add priming suger?

If you add concentrate, then bottle you will have too much sugar in your bottles and could explode.

If you are wanting to carbonate with the same sugar that means you expect the yeast to do the work, they will not stop when it finishes carbonating but will continue to eat the rest of the sugars you added to back sweeten, recipe for a bottle bomb. :mug:
 
As long as you are adding the sugars by weight you will probably be fine. I use a rule of 4-5 oz sugars for 5-gallons. So look at the apple juice concentrate label, it should indicate how many grams of sugar per serving and do the math...

So after you've racked into your bottling bucket, add the apple syrup and give a weak stirring. 3 weeks later you'll have perfectly carbonated beverages!
 
Cool thanks. 3 weeks! My house must be warm last time carbing rook 5 days. I am loosing lots of my apple flavor during primary firminting is that due to my home being warm?
 
I really don't know where all the apple flavor goes. My guess is that yeast metabolize some of it, or it evaporates out. If you backsweeten with a little bit of apple concentrate you will get some apple back...

Carb time depends on the yeast and temperature. True, it doesn't usually take 3 weeks but I let it sit that long in the basement to condition or age.
 
helix6789 said:
Cool thanks. 3 weeks! My house must be warm last time carbing rook 5 days. I am loosing lots of my apple flavor during primary firminting is that due to my home being warm?

The apple flavor is a combination of acids and a lot of natural sugar. The yeast eat the sugar to make alcohol. I think a very common misconception about hard cider is that it's just alcoholic applejuice. Hard cider is no more apple tasting than wine is grape tasting. Most store bought ciders add sugar or sweetener back in after the alcohol is made and that's what your palette is used to.

If you want sweet carbonated cider then you can either backsweeten with apple juice concentrate to taste and then bottle prime with sugar, and finally pasteurize when your carbonation level is at your liking.... Or you can backsweeten with a non fermentables sweetener like stevia, splenda, xylitol, lactose, etc, and then prime with the right amount of sugar and leave it be forever..... Or you can sorbate it. Back sweeten it with whatever you like, and then force carb it through a keg and co2 system.

I suggest any if these three methods. I've done them all and they all work equally well. Pasteurizing is the most involved, but most natural; non fermentables are the easiest by far but can have some unpleasant flavors added to your finished product; and the kegging method is quite hassle free but has a high expense associated with setup.

It's a balance between them all, and you just have to weigh your options. I've won an award for cider using the non fermentables method, but I also enjoy the naturalness of the pasteurizing method, and for large parties, the keg option is great.
 
Wow divi2323! Very informative Thanks i was under the inpreshion it would tast very much like apple. Mine does tast like wine. So cool i am doing it right. And it is drinkable. I just need to pick a method i like. Thanks
 
One thing I forgot to.mention.is after time, the apple flafor starts to return but it is very faint. I've had my cider sweetened to my liking at bottling time but after 3-4 months found it was too sweet for me.

My advice would be to bottle some without backsweetening at all and try them at 3, 6, 9, and 12 month intervals. You'll be surprised at how much a dry carbonated cider grows on you.
 
My carbing, once bottled (about 12 hours after having back sweetened the batch with ~30% juice), took less than 2 days, and by that I mean I HAD to pasteurize when I did. Had I left it any longer, I would've definitely had bottle bombs (I bottled a couple in flip-tops to check). It must be the climate here. It's in the 90's and humid outside, and our AC is set at 74. I think this also had a lot to do with why my cider fermented to dry so fast. Next batch I will keep a close eye on the yeast activity and rack to secondary based on that, not on the 2 weeks stated in my recipe.
 
I use Truvia... just a smidge to give a little sweetness- not much... then I carbonate with real sugar... there is a little weird fake-sugar after taste when I try the first bottle in a week but it goes away after a good six weeks of conditioning in the bottle
 
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