Awful smelling, but ok tasting beer. what gives?

[MeanDeuce]

Brewed up a saison a couple weekends back. Just bottled tonight and am trying to figure out where I may have gone wrong (I actually know one, see #2). I have two possible causes IMO, possibly both of them.

1) Stressed yeast from shipping (Yeast Bay Wallonian) during 90* week
2) Over flameout hopped after not catching a recipe scaling issue. Added 2.5 oz (1oz Saaz and 1.5oz EKG) at flameout, instead of a 3rd of that. Original Recipe was based on 15 gallons

Fermentation was held in the mid to high 70s.
OG - Unknown, Target was 1.056
FG - 1.007

The taste is actually ok. The smell is like a combo of medicine, bubble gum, hops and I don't know what, definitely not good. Is this something that might subside over time? I am going to see what it is like after it carbs up before deciding to dump.

 

[LexusChris]

What was your recipe and your brew system?

The medicine smell, is it like wet band-aids? That can be caused by phenols in the brew.. either from the yeast or from excess chlorine used in sanitation.

I find Palmer's "How To Brew", chapter on 'Off Flavors' very helpful in identifying what I am smelling & tasting and its root cause.

I'm told that Belgian & Saison yeasts can get pretty funky, especially when you let them go to high temps, or stress them out by under pitching.

The excess late hopping is not that extravagant, but it will certainly put a lot of competing aroma & flavor with all the esters & phenols from the saison yeast. It could just be a bit 'too much'...

Unless its a 'band-aid' flavor from residual bleach used in sanitation, I think you should give it a few weeks to age. A lot of late hop aroma will mellow, and some of the funk may blend better after aging. Don't dump it!

--LexusChris

 

[MeanDeuce]

So the chlorine thing rings a bell. This is in fact my first time using Star San to sanitize, could that be the culprit? I've traditionally just used One Step. I usually make sure most of the cleanser/sanitizer has dried or drained off before racking in any beer.

Recipe - Partial Mash:

Mashed for 60 mins Belgian Pilsner, Rye Malt and Munich 10L (double batch sparge)
Boiled for 70 mins with DME and some cane sugar
Fermented between 70-80 with a starter of Yeast Bay Wallonian, vigorous fermentation within 24hrs

Equipment:
HD Cooler for mashing
10gal stainless pot for the boil

 

[Braufessor]

Did you make a starter for your yeast?

If you pitched a single vial/pack of yeast that was already stressed into a 1.055 (ish) wort, I would expect you would get off flavors.

Mid to high 70's is not unreasonable for a Saison..... Were you measuring beer temperature or room temperature? If it was the room temp, your beer was 5-8 degrees warmer while fermenting.

"Medicinal" as a Bandaid flavor is likely chlorine/chloramine in water.
"Medicinal" as a listerine/alcohol flavor - sounds like high fermentation temps or possibly infection.
Bubblegum is something you would likely get from a Saison yeast possibly. Probably more of it if yeast is stressed and temps are high.

The other thing, you are tasting a pretty young beer that is also got a lot of fairly complex flavors (a saison) so, some of that may mellow out and blend together with a bit more time.

I don't think the star san or the hops has much to do with it. I think it is warm fermentation characteristics for sure and perhaps underpitching (stressed) yeast as well as possibly (???) chlorine/chloramine in your tap water source.

Also - don't let star san dry off. it is no rinse. Don't worry abou the "foam" bubbles or anything. Once you wet the surfaces and drain off the excess, it is good to go.

 

[RonPopeil]

If you rinsed your star san out with a chlorinated water source that could be your culprit. That would give you the chlorophenols everyone has been eluding to.

 

[MeanDeuce]

Made a big starter the night before. Plenty of yeasties the next day at pitching. Could've been lots of mutated "stressed" yeast though

Ferment temp was air temp so yeah might be in low 80s by peak ferment.

Did not rinse star San off. So sounds like that can be written off.

Brewed at my friends house, new location for me. So it's a possibility he's got some chemically h2o. Will give it some time to mature, hopefully any residual yeast can work some magic.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[MeanDeuce]

UPDATE: So I popped my first beer. Fully carbed, still smells awful. Straight up bandaids. Taste is fine if you can get over the smell. Damn. I don't know what to do with this, dont want to dump it.

 

[Braufessor]

Well, I think the two variables I would look at going forward are:

*Fermentation temps - Gotta keep them in the mid-upper 60's for the beer temp. if at all possible. Upper 70's and beyond is a definite recipe for off flavors. And, the higher, the worse the off flavors.

*Chlorine/Chloramine - Band Aid is really a very common symptom of this.

I hope it comes around for you..... but, to be honest, I would not count on it. No shame in having a brew not turn out. We have all been there. The best cure is to learn 2 or 3 new things from any mistakes/disappointments and apply them going forward to make better and more consistent beer. I have brewed for a long time.... I still make mistakes, and I still learn from them. Having a "dumper" (if it comes to that) is not the end of the world - get a new batch going to replace it.

 

[Braufessor]

** Forgot from your original post - you were doing a Saison. So, those temps are not crazy for a beer like that. I would still recommend starting lower - even for a beer like that. Most off flavors happen early on after pitching. Chilling to 68 or something like that on a saison and keeping temps 68-70 for a day or two and then free rising after that to higher temps can keep that in check.

 

[MeanDeuce]

Thanks for the feedback.

Hoping to brew asap. I think my next batch will involve the following corrections to see if things turn out better.

1) Use bottled spring water to see if my friends tap has "bad" water

2) swamp cooler for first two days to keep temps manageable.

3) Use a smackpack of Wyeast 3711 to see if the yeast had been stressed during shipment


I'm assuming that the yeast in the existing bottles is probably compromised from the hot ferment/shipment and would not yield optimal flavors right? Otherwise I might try to harvest some and try again.

 

[Braufessor]

I'm assuming that the yeast in the existing bottles is probably compromised from the hot ferment/shipment and would not yield optimal flavors right? Otherwise I might try to harvest some and try again.

I'd just start fresh. I only keep yeast from beers that taste great..... just not worth the risk for a few bucks, especially after being unhappy with this batch - you want to get a good one in the bank.

Here is a good method for harvesting yeast BEFORE brewing beer though if you want to bank some - this is basically the way I do it, and it is slick as can be.

http://brulosophy.com/yeast-harvesting/