Automating Brewery Cleaning

[aamcle]

Good Morning All.

I'm thinking about a possible small brewery build say 3 US gallons max.

I have an outline concept a simple 2 vessel system and once the grain has been removed I would like to have it run some sort of self cleaning/automated cleaning function.

I probably can manage the control via CraftbeerPi as it's a matter of opening and closing valves in sequence. If a little programming is needed that's Ok.

Have any members managed to make a autoclean system that works?

If you have please share how you did it and your thoughts about any possible improvements.

One of the "beer brewing appliances" might have been ideal for me but I'm not sure if any are in current production and I am sure that they are much too costly.

Thanks All. aamcle

 

[madscientist451]

If cost is a concern, you can do 3 gallon batches using the BIAB method and a brewing kettle. Once the wort is chilled, dump it to your fermenter and clean the pot in the kitchen sink. A brewing rig with hoses, valves and a pump will all have to be disassembled and the individual items will have to be cleaned. A self cleaning system for such a small brewing set up would be way more trouble than its worth.

 

[aamcle]

I did BIAB for some time, it combined with nochill does reduce the cleaning but I don't want to go back to that. I never liked handling the heavy hot floppy bag when it was time to remove it.

Aamcle

 

[Golddiggie]

I could see wanting an automated (or semi-automated) cleaning setup for a 1bbl (or larger) system, but not a 3 gallon setup. It's simply easier to clean the small kettles you're using in such a small setup. Probably faster too.

For my current setup (15 gallon HLT and MT, 20 gallon BK) it's easy enough to clean out the MT while I'm getting the wort up to boil (in the BK obviously). I let the BK soal with PBW in it to get everything nice and clean (especially the element in the BK). All I do for the HLT is drain it (usually right into the BK for making the PBW solution) and dry it out. I do take apart the pump setup as well as everything else wort side (wort strainer and setup on the wort out side of the plate chiller) after each batch. With these being TC fittings, that's far easier than when it was all NPT.

 

[aamcle]

Thanks Golddiggie.

aamcle

 

[Deadalus]

Perhaps not practical for your size, it might still be interesting from a hobbyist's perspective. Or perhaps on a larger homebrewer system it might become practical for some reason. I'm kind of at the limit of scrubbing my HLT keggle, some body parts aren't as good as they used to be!

So @aamcle you were already thinking about this while incorporating potential automation in the brewing system? From that perspective, I've seen people discuss using rotary ball sprayers configured in different ways. My impression so far is that the usual homebrewing pumps using in brewing may be a little weak to do that. That's just from reading a few posts here and there. I use my pump to run PBW through my HERMS coil and plate chiller. That part would be just a small change in whatever automation you would put into the system. Maybe some additional connections to truly automate it. (Chiller doesn't normally go but into the fermenter.) I just move the hoses around. While my PBW solution goes to the BK, I still end up scrubbing it.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

Everything should fit in the dishwasher with a 3 gallon system.

 

[Golddiggie]

@Deadalus Why are you scrubbing the HLT?? That should only have water in it, so no scrubbing needed. I only 'scrub' my MT every few batches (or so). As I mentioned, I do a PBW soak in the BK more to get the element clean and run the solution through the plate chiller than anything else. Actually, I run it through the HERMS coil as well to get it nice and clean inside (hard to do anything else with 50' of stainless tubing).

I find that letting the PBW solution sit in the BK for at least a few days gets it nice and clean. Especially the heating element. I do take the BK and rinse it out first (in the driveway since I don't have a sink in my brewing area, or even that floor). I make sure to remove the items in the kettle first, to prevent damage (contact with the ground). Especially the TC sensor. It would all be easier if I had a sink to use. I plan to have one where I live next.

 

[Deadalus]

Everything should fit in the dishwasher with a 3 gallon system.

The OP could also just brew without automating anything but appears to have an interest in building things.

 

[Golddiggie]

The OP could also just brew without automating anything but appears to have an interest in building things.

Too many people (at work as well) are hung up on 'automating' everything. Even where you have either very little positive gain, or actually have more negative impact by doing so.

 

[Deadalus]

@Deadalus Why are you scrubbing the HLT?? That should only have water in it, so no scrubbing needed. I only 'scrub' my MT every few batches (or so). As I mentioned, I do a PBW soak in the BK more to get the element clean and run the solution through the plate chiller than anything else. Actually, I run it through the HERMS coil as well to get it nice and clean inside (hard to do anything else with 50' of stainless tubing).

I find that letting the PBW solution sit in the BK for at least a few days gets it nice and clean. Especially the heating element. I do take the BK and rinse it out first (in the driveway since I don't have a sink in my brewing area, or even that floor). I make sure to remove the items in the kettle first, to prevent damage (contact with the ground). Especially the TC sensor. It would all be easier if I had a sink to use. I plan to have one where I live next.

OK Golddiggie, I think sometimes you have difficulty when other people decide to do things differently than you. I understand completely given I have been known to do it but wanted to mention it. Not everyone is young and fit for instance, I am finding it easier now to just scoop out my mash tun instead of hauling it to the composter and dumping it.

That being said, sometimes the HLT has other things in like bugs that land in it, spiders building a web, or dust, and sometimes it gets a little mineral buildup. I don't at all clean it regularly but sometimes I do clean it. I also am not going to let the rig sit in the driveway for a few days soaking while the BK soaks. I prefer to put it away clean. Fruit flies would love otherwise but since the BK is a keggle without a real lid, I would have to seal it up too.

But it's not about my practices, the OP was interested in possibly automating cleaning on a small system, for whatever reason, could just be curiosity or the challenge of building things.

 

[Golddiggie]

I have my kettles on the brew stand (in the garage here) with the lids on. That keeps bugs out of them. If you're getting mineral buildup in the HTL, you might want to look to filter the water (or filter it more if you do). I'm using a single carbon filter and have not had mineral deposits with several batches processed through these kettles.

I'm not that young either (over 50 now) so I'm working smarter, not harder. The driveway is used to wash out/rinse things. That's it. Nothing sits there (I'm crazy, not stupid).

For my keggles, I bought the lid for the old BK and used the cut top from another keggle for lids in the others. It was just a matter of a little forethought to get that working.

Before I set the brew stand up where it is now, I was moving the kettles (keggles at the time) between the basement (behind the garage) and where we were brewing (driveway). Since that got old, I ended up simply leaving the system setup on the stand in the garage. Especially after I leveled it (3" drop from one end to the other).

At most, I wipe out the HLT after a batch is brewed, and it's drained. It's an easy process at that time. Even moving around the HERMS coil and element.

I don't have problem with people doing things different. I just call out when things make zero sense as initially stated. Which you scrubbing the HLT falls under.

Personally, since moving to Spike+ kettles, I'll never go back to either keggles or anything with threaded fittings. For one thing, the Spike+ kettles (or pretty much all kettles) have a larger opening and true lids. Being able to clean easily is a high value item. Easy setup, or breakdown, with the TC fittings is more than worth the cost of getting them. At least it is for me. Again, work smarter not harder. If you have to fight your setup, then something needs to be changed (or should be).

 

[Deadalus]

I have my kettles on the brew stand (in the garage here) with the lids on. That keeps bugs out of them. If you're getting mineral buildup in the HTL, you might want to look to filter the water (or filter it more if you do). I'm using a single carbon filter and have not had mineral deposits with several batches processed through these kettles.

I'm not that young either (over 50 now) so I'm working smarter, not harder. The driveway is used to wash out/rinse things. That's it. Nothing sits there (I'm crazy, not stupid).

For my keggles, I bought the lid for the old BK and used the cut top from another keggle for lids in the others. It was just a matter of a little forethought to get that working.

Before I set the brew stand up where it is now, I was moving the kettles (keggles at the time) between the basement (behind the garage) and where we were brewing (driveway). Since that got old, I ended up simply leaving the system setup on the stand in the garage. Especially after I leveled it (3" drop from one end to the other).

At most, I wipe out the HLT after a batch is brewed, and it's drained. It's an easy process at that time. Even moving around the HERMS coil and element.

I don't have problem with people doing things different. I just call out when things make zero sense as initially stated. Which you scrubbing the HLT falls under.

Personally, since moving to Spike+ kettles, I'll never go back to either keggles or anything with threaded fittings. For one thing, the Spike+ kettles (or pretty much all kettles) have a larger opening and true lids. Being able to clean easily is a high value item. Easy setup, or breakdown, with the TC fittings is more than worth the cost of getting them. At least it is for me. Again, work smarter not harder. If you have to fight your setup, then something needs to be changed (or should be).

Your whole post just illustrates what I said. You do have a problem with people doing things differently when YOU think the reason makes zero sense. Which is not to say it does or doesn't actually just your limited interpretation of the situation which is often driven by your personal circumstances and biases. Occasionally a HLT will need cleaning for whatever reasons you might be aware of or not. Or even another piece of their system. Or they have one arm or some other reason. We don't have to keep thinking of potential scenarios to get to the one the that satisfies Golddiggie's standard because...

It's also perfectly acceptable for somebody to build something whether or not you find practicality in it.

 

[Beholder]

Good Morning All.

I'm thinking about a possible small brewery build say 3 US gallons max.

I have an outline concept a simple 2 vessel system and once the grain has been removed I would like to have it run some sort of self cleaning/automated cleaning function.

I probably can manage the control via CraftbeerPi as it's a matter of opening and closing valves in sequence. If a little programming is needed that's Ok.

Have any members managed to make a autoclean system that works?

If you have please share how you did it and your thoughts about any possible improvements.

One of the "beer brewing appliances" might have been ideal for me but I'm not sure if any are in current production and I am sure that they are much too costly.

Thanks All. aamcle

I would recommend a CIP ball - to make use of pumps you already have, go with a low pressure low flow made by the likes of SS Brewtech, as the bigger ones require high horsepower pumps which get pricey for the high temp versions that can handle caustic. Drill a hole in the lid and you’ll have to develop a way to put some force on the lid to keep it in place (roll over clips, spring clips, etc). CIPs will push water through that joint and it will leak without it.

A plumbing panel with some switches for pumps and valves to change from recirc to drain, add fresh water for rinse, etc. would be a good amount of “automation.” If you wanteda no hands on, then swap valves for solenoid versions and have fun watching the magic happen. If you are electric burner, you can connect that to a temp controller to set at 150 for PBW, or alternately have a hot stick and thermocouple plumbed in lineto achieve the same outcome.

 

[aamcle]

Yes I like building things I have a GF now but it's less satisfying (+less leaky) than the systems I have built over the years.

I'm now in the position were I would benefit from a very small very easy to use system but it's the brewers dilemma 23l takes very little more time and effort than 12l when using my GF with the small pipe kit.

So even though 23l is too much I keep brewing it, there is only me drinking and the beer fades or I get bored with it by the time I've got through a batch.

In principal a Full Volume No Sparge BIAB is the simplest and combined with No Chill the easiest. However I don't like messing about with a bag, a basket is better I had one in something I built but automating the lifting of a bag and moving it out of the way would be troublesome.

My initial thoughts revolve around some variation of the Countertop Brutus 20, it was the first brewery I built and it worked well until the cooler's inner lining started to warp. Just two vessels and very easy cleanup. I have been looking a doing something with silicon tubing and pinch valves as they are so easy to keep clean.

I now feel that a water supply to my garage were I brew might save a lot of effort both with cleanup and carrying water.

ATB aamcle

 

[Deadalus]

Yes I like building things I have a GF now but it's less satisfying (+less leaky) than the systems I have built over the years.

I'm now in the position were I would benefit from a very small very easy to use system but it's the brewers dilemma 23l takes very little more time and effort than 12l when using my GF with the small pipe kit.

So even though 23l is too much I keep brewing it, there is only me drinking and the beer fades or I get bored with it by the time I've got through a batch.

In principal a Full Volume No Sparge BIAB is the simplest and combined with No Chill the easiest. However I don't like messing about with a bag, a basket is better I had one in something I built but automating the lifting of a bag and moving it out of the way would be troublesome.

My initial thoughts revolve around some variation of the Countertop Brutus 20, it was the first brewery I built and it worked well until the cooler's inner lining started to warp. Just two vessels and very easy cleanup. I have been looking a doing something with silicon tubing and pinch valves as they are so easy to keep clean.

I now feel that a water supply to my garage were I brew might save a lot of effort both with cleanup and carrying water.

ATB aamcle

Hahahaha I initially read that acronym as girlfriend (sorry!) but I take it you meant Grainfather.

It was a big help to me to install a sink in my garage. It's a one bay utility sink but in a perfect world I'd go with a two or three compartment sink with sideboards for drain space. Supplying water isn't usually much of a problem but drainage could be an issue depending on how far away the waste line is. We could probably talk you through that if you wanted help to go that route and started a thread on it. It would be good to mention if you are not in the US though.

 

[aamcle]

I'm in the UK, running the water and draining it isn't a problem unfortunately I'm not going to be able to install a fixed supply.

I'll set up some sort of cart with the brewery on it and wall mount a sink using a temporary supply from some of food grade hose. That will enable me to use the "Taste + Ordure" filter mounted under the kitchen sink, it has the useful function of removing Chlorine.

I should be able to put the pots in the dish washer to clean them, but a sink would still be a good thing to have.

aamcle

 

[YeastFeast]

Hahahaha I initially read that acronym as girlfriend (sorry!) but I take it you meant Grainfather.

Yeah, I was guessing “girl friend” or “gluten free” but neither made sense. I didn’t know it was Grainfather until you said it! Ha!