Austin Homebrew Rogue Imperial IPA clone not an Imperial IPA?

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dzamba

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I was going to brew a batch of this IIPA this weekend but as it turns out it's not an Imperial IPA. It's even a little light in the SRM department to be considered an American IPA.



15 lbs of American 2-Row (the site says 16 but they only gave me 15)
1 oz Newport 60 min
1 oz Cascade 30 min
1 oz Sterling 15 min
1 oz Amarillo Dryhop

According to Beertools.com:
OG: 1.070
FG: 1.013
SRM: 5.14
IBU: 53.4
ABV: 7.5

Anybody else notice this?
 

Edcculus

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Something looks off. I just checked out the site. Like you stated, the site says the kit comes with 16 lbs of grain. By the looks of the mini mash, you should have around a pound of another grain. Maybe some crystal or munich. I can't imagine an IIPA with just 2-row.

As to your calculations, do you have it set for 5 gal? I just plugged 15 lbs of 2 row into Beersmith and got an estimated OG of 1.082.

AHS has excellent customer service. I'd PM or email Forrest and see if there was a mishap.
 

Yooper

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When I run those numbers, I get about 1.078 (my efficiency is set at 70% but I usually get a bit higher) and 64.5 IBUs. Definitely in the IIPA range to me.

I guessed at the AAUs of the Newport hops at 14%- I know they are usually pretty high. If yours are lower, the IBUs would be lower, of course.
 

humann_brewing

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From Rogue


6 Ingredients:

Malts: Two-row Pipkin Pale.

Hops: Saaz, Cascade & Northwest Golding.

Yeast & Water: Rogue's Pacman Yeast & Free Range Coastal Water.
Specs:

20º PLATO

74 IBU

75 AA

13º Lovibond


World Class Package:

Draft, 750ml Ceramic
 
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dzamba

dzamba

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Here's what I plugged in. I changed the IBUS in the Newport to 14 and it brought it up to 71.1. Not bad. But I'm still getting an OG of 1.070

Category India Pale Ale (IPA)
Subcategory Imperial IPA
Recipe Type All Grain
Batch Size 5.25 gal.
Volume Boiled 6.25 gal.
Mash Efficiency 70 %
Total Grain/Extract 15.00 lbs.
Total Hops 3.0 oz.
 

Yooper

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Here's what I plugged in. I changed the IBUS in the Newport to 14 and it brought it up to 71.1. Not bad. But I'm still getting an OG of 1.070
Yeah, maybe if you're doing a 5.25 gallon batch and your efficiency is 70%. Mine is a little higher. If your efficiency is 70%, you may want to make a 5 gallon batch if getting the OG up some is important to you.
 

remilard

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Something looks off. I just checked out the site. Like you stated, the site says the kit comes with 16 lbs of grain. By the looks of the mini mash, you should have around a pound of another grain. Maybe some crystal or munich. I can't imagine an IIPA with just 2-row.

As to your calculations, do you have it set for 5 gal? I just plugged 15 lbs of 2 row into Beersmith and got an estimated OG of 1.082.

AHS has excellent customer service. I'd PM or email Forrest and see if there was a mishap.
Most beers are made entirely from 2-row barley.

The type in IIPA happens to be an English pale ale malt. I assume AHS is using a domestic type.

The hops are wrong, and not enough.
 

Edcculus

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Yea...I know what beer is made of. Read what I wrote. I just haven't seen too many IPA's or IIPA's made of ENTIRELY 2 row.
 

ArcaneXor

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Looks ok, though I'd ask them to send you the extra pound of malt.

Clone recipes are hit and miss - there are too many process and system-specific variables to guarantee that a homebrewed recipe will taste like the commercial version. I prefer to start from a good base recipe and then tweak it over several brews until I achieve what I set out to.
 

Yankeehillbrewer

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So, it sounds like you knew what the list of ingredients was before you ordered it, but now you're complaining about it? I'm confused, if you think this recipe doesn't constitute an IIPA, why would you order it in the first place, knowing what the ingredients are?Am I missing something?

I would hope that you gave AHS/Forrest a chance to fix a potential problem before bringing it up here.
 

Beerrific

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Yea...I know what beer is made of. Read what I wrote. I just haven't seen too many IPA's or IIPA's made of ENTIRELY 2 row.
Most (craft/micro) beer is made from entirely 2-row. (Some) crystal malts are 2-row, Munich is 2-row, continental Pilsner is 2-row. I think what you mean is that you rarely see many beers made with 100% 2-row Pale Malt, right?

I think it is reasonable for IIPA to be all domestic 2-row pale malt. Adding in crystal malts and Munich type malts contribute a lot of flavor that in a big beer can become cloying.

So 15lbs at 37ppg at 70% efficiency in 5 gallons gives 1.078, 19.4P. 16lbs. would put you at 1.083, 21P. Both put you very close to the desired 20P. But from the AHS website, it looks like they shorted you 1 lb. or it will work if you get >70% eff.

I am not sure what to say about the hops. IMO (not to start a debate) this is why I do not like to brew clone kits that don't explicitly say what the recipe is. If a certain beer uses X hops, I would expect to get X hops unless they were not available from that store.
 

ArcaneXor

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The hops are ok. Newport seems to be a generic bittering hop bred as a replacement for Galena, which is quite neutral. Sterling is a Saaz substitute, and Amarillo can be used in place of Cascade, certainly for dry hopping. Seems like a reasonably close clone recipe.

As far as the color is concerned, you could do a decoction (who knows, maybe that's what Rogue does) or add a handful of color malts in there.
 
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dzamba

dzamba

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Thanks, everybody. I'm going to contact Forrest about the missing #.

Yankeehillbrewer, I didn't review the recipe till I received the package yesterday.
 

Yankeehillbrewer

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Thanks, everybody. I'm going to contact Forrest about the missing #.

Yankeehillbrewer, I didn't review the recipe till I received the package yesterday.
Sorry to be critical, but isn't it kinda silly to order a kit without knowing exactly what's in it?
 

chumprock

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Sorry to be critical, but isn't it kinda silly to order a kit without knowing exactly what's in it?
Sorry to be clueless, but can you show me where on the AHS site you can review the ingredients before purchasing? All I see is the total sum of grains.
 

Turner_Brown

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Sorry to be critical, but isn't it kinda silly to order a kit without knowing exactly what's in it?

AHS doesn't put the full list of ingredients on their kits. Here is an example of how they describe the kit:

Fermentable Sugars:
Extract: 7 lbs. Liquid Malt Extract, .5 lbs. Specialty Grains.
Mini Mash: 5 lbs. Liquid Malt Extract, 2.5 lbs. Base Grains, .5 lbs. Specialty Grains.
All Grain: 9.5 lbs. Base Grains, .5 lbs. Specialty Grains.


These kits are meant for beginners. The instructions tend to be very generic and middle of the road on everything.

That being said...I had a great time learning to brew with them. And have only had good experiences with AHS.
 

ArcaneXor

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Sorry to be clueless, but can you show me where on the AHS site you can review the ingredients before purchasing? All I see is the total sum of grains.
You have to e-mail them for the complete list of ingredients.
 

Turner_Brown

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You have to e-mail them for the complete list of ingredients.
I'm surprised that they would just hand out the actual ingredients to these kits (pre-purchase). I mean, seems like if you go through all the trouble to list/compile hundreds of clone kits you wouldn't just want some guy getting your recipe and buying from it from somewhere else. I know when I was shopping for HS stores on the internet I thought that AHS was the bomb because of these kits. They are a huge asset to them.
 

david_42

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Sounds like the kit is close to Rogue's recipe. 20º PLATO is only 1.080. Hops? The clone kits I've purchased from Austin Home Brew stand-up to the real thing in every case I've been able to make a direct comparison.

Don't forget, Rogue uses Pacman yeast and gets crazy attenuation.

The BJCP spots the IIPA at 7.5-10.5% ABV.
 
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dzamba

dzamba

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AHS doesn't put the full list of ingredients on their kits. Here is an example of how they describe the kit:

Fermentable Sugars:
Extract: 7 lbs. Liquid Malt Extract, .5 lbs. Specialty Grains.
Mini Mash: 5 lbs. Liquid Malt Extract, 2.5 lbs. Base Grains, .5 lbs. Specialty Grains.
All Grain: 9.5 lbs. Base Grains, .5 lbs. Specialty Grains.


These kits are meant for beginners. The instructions tend to be very generic and middle of the road on everything.

That being said...I had a great time learning to brew with them. And have only had good experiences with AHS.
It is usually cheaper to buy a kit than to purchase all the items separately.
 

david_42

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I don't consider clone kits a beginners-only thing. Probably 1/3 of my batches are kits that caught my eye while shopping for something else. I'm certain I would have never experienced "Jasper Murdock's Whistling Pig Red", except for AHB. Impulse purchases can lead to interesting beers.
 

Nikobrew

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I was going to brew a batch of this IIPA this weekend but as it turns out it's not an Imperial IPA. It's even a little light in the SRM department to be considered an American IPA.



15 lbs of American 2-Row (the site says 16 but they only gave me 15)
1 oz Newport 60 min
1 oz Cascade 30 min
1 oz Sterling 15 min
1 oz Amarillo Dryhop

According to Beertools.com:
OG: 1.070
FG: 1.013
SRM: 5.14
IBU: 53.4
ABV: 7.5

Anybody else notice this?
Howd this turn out? Sorry to revive an old thread but I'm working on a good imperial ipa recipe.. I also found that in the byo clone mag they show belgian malt instead of american 2 row.. Maybe I read the wrong one. Regardless it should be damn tasty :)
 

brewjunky

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I'm surprised that they would just hand out the actual ingredients to these kits (pre-purchase). I mean, seems like if you go through all the trouble to list/compile hundreds of clone kits you wouldn't just want some guy getting your recipe and buying from it from somewhere else. I know when I was shopping for HS stores on the internet I thought that AHS was the bomb because of these kits. They are a huge asset to them.
Northern Brewer has the recipes posted on their site for their recipes. If your buying something you should know what your getting
 
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dzamba

dzamba

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Well, they told me it was a typo. Thats why I only got the 15LBS instead of 16. I ended up adding a few extra Lbs and bumping up the bittering and aroma hops. It's hanging out in the secondary for a while. I'll let you know when I crack one open.
 
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