Auber PIDs - What's the difference?

[MrH]

I'm curious about two in particular:

SYL-2362 or SYL-2352

Besides the small $3 price difference, they appear to be nearly identical, especially with some of the "new" features listed for the 2362.

Am I missing something obvious?

MrH

 

[TXCrash]

I've had one too many glasses of two buck chuck(A cab and a shiraz Had to compare the two ya know!) to answer... but I'm curious to know as well.

 

[samc]

Output modes are different, one sends a 12 v signal to an SSR and the other has a built in SSR

12V DC for external SSR

or

Relay contact: 3A at 240 VAC, SSR: 8VDC, 40 mA.

 

[SAMPLER]

Output modes are different, one sends a 12 v signal to an SSR and the other has a built in SSR

12V DC for external SSR

or

Relay contact: 3A at 240 VAC, SSR: 8VDC, 40 mA.

I read that too, so which is perferred? And why?

 

[CodeRage]

The 2352 has one SSR output and one dry contact for an output (Not an SSR). It's control algorithms are different.
The 2352 has an auto tune function for PID controls opposed to the 2362's manual configuration. The 2352 also has a much shorter duty cycle setting than the 2362.

For HERMS, BK, and fridge controls the 2362 is fine when used in limit mode. For RIMS applications I would rather have the advanced PID equations used in the 2352. There are also other differences but those are the most significant.

 

[MrH]

The 2352 has an auto tune function for PID controls opposed to the 2362's manual configuration.

Hmm, from the web page for the 2362:

Auto-tune function can find the best PID parameter automatically.

Is the web page incorrect on this?

 

[CodeRage]

Hmm, from the web page for the 2362:

Auto-tune function can find the best PID parameter automatically.

Is the web page incorrect on this?

I guess it does, I was looking for the parameter to set for it and couldn't find it. I dunno what the big difference is then.

 

[Cliff897]

read and compare the descriptions.
Cut and past them to a word document and use a table or columns to get as direct a comparison as possible

 

[Grimster]

Ok so if I want to mostly control my boil, what do I need minimum to keep my 5500W element from boiling the bejeebus out of my wort? 2352 + 25A or larger SSR + heatsink? Since I will simply heat to temp watching my pot thermometer for sparging and won't really use the PID to control temps I won't "really" need a thermocouple correct?

 

[CodeRage]

Ok so if I want to mostly control my boil, what do I need minimum to keep my 5500W element from boiling the bejeebus out of my wort? 2352 + 25A or larger SSR + heatsink? Since I will simply heat to temp watching my pot thermometer for sparging and won't really use the PID to control temps I won't "really" need a thermocouple correct?

They wont turn on the element with out a temperature probe, part of the fail safe.

 

[Grimster]

They wont turn on the element with out a temperature probe, part of the fail safe.

Since I don't really need it to monitor the temps or keep a certain temp since I'll just heat to target and turn off for sparging/mashing could I just use the much cheaper non liquid probe for that?

 

[CodeRage]

Yeah, just leave a thermocouple hanging off the side.

I am in the process of designing a simple controller to do exactly what you are asking btw.

 

[Grimster]

I was wondering could I simply use a "dimmer switch" on the controller side of an SSR to do this? or is that "not how it works"?

 

[The Pol]

Dimmers are not on/off controls, SSRs take ON/OFF commands. So, no, that is not how they work. All an SSR is, is an ON/OFF switch, that is all that it is.

 

[MonkeyWrench]

Since I don't really need it to monitor the temps or keep a certain temp since I'll just heat to target and turn off for sparging/mashing could I just use the much cheaper non liquid probe for that?

Sounds like you should just hook your element to a switch. Why buy a PID, SSR, and thermocouple if you are just bringing it up to temp and turning it off?

 

[Grimster]

Sounds like you should just hook your element to a switch. Why buy a PID, SSR, and thermocouple if you are just bringing it up to temp and turning it off?

I'll be doing BIAB and will also use the element for the 60+ minute boil, and won't want it to run "full blast" as that will boil the everliving snot out of it (and some say caramelize the wort).

 

[jkarp]

I guess it does, I was looking for the parameter to set for it and couldn't find it. I dunno what the big difference is then.

2352 has enhanced "fuzzy logic" (whatever that means), in addition to PID
2362 is a standard PID

2352 is SSR only
2362 has switchable outputs

2362 is $2.55 cheaper

Both have manual mode, auto-tune, two alarms and selectable input.

 

[MrH]

The 2352 has one SSR output and one dry contact for an output (Not an SSR). It's control algorithms are different.
The 2352 has an auto tune function for PID controls opposed to the 2362's manual configuration. The 2352 also has a much shorter duty cycle setting than the 2362.

For HERMS, BK, and fridge controls the 2362 is fine when used in limit mode. For RIMS applications I would rather have the advanced PID equations used in the 2352. There are also other differences but those are the most significant.

Ok, so I have read the two manuals side-by-side and have tried to make sense of the differences. Much of what CodeRage said is correct, although both do have Auto Tune, which is a big deal in my book.

The 2362 is nearly the same as the TET612 I'm about to replace, but with some significant software upgrades. The biggest are the on/off control, manual mode, and limit mode, which acts like a latching relay to shutdown the SSR in case of runaway temps. They advertise the 2362 as being ideal for refrigeration because of the on/off mode, but the built-in relays are only rated for 3A at 240V (they don't give a 120V rating, but I'd guess 5A).

The only thing the 2352 seems to lack as compared to the 2362 is the limit mode. I wonder how useful this really is in practice, though. With limit mode on the 2362, when the limit temp is reached, the power is disconnected and must be reset manually. It's a good safety feature against dry fire I suppose, but your temp sensors would have to be placed in exactly the right spot to be able to detect that condition (i.e., inside a RIMS chamber). Mine aren't.

The 2352 seems superior in every other respect. Its internal relays are rated for 7A @ 240V (10A @ 120V). (This is wrong. I misread the manual.) It has fuzzy logic enhanced PID control, which presumably results in more accurate and smoother predictions and control which is ideal for RIMS. It also has manual control, as well as dual stage on/off, so if you want to control a refigerator with it, for $45 this controller does the same thing as a dual stage Love controller. (Also incorrect. For high current relay switching, look at the 2342.) Also, and I don't know if this matters to us (but I don't doubt someone here might find a way to exploit it ), the 2352 allows for voltage and current sensor inputs in addition to thermocouples and RTDs (don't pressure sensors send voltage?)

Those were the big things that jumped out at me. For my money, I'd rather spend the extra $3 and get a controller that can be used for just about anything I can possibly think of (and some I can't). In fact, I'm thinking now that I might just replace both of my TET612's, not just the one giving me trouble. The only thing that really sux about that is that I'll have to rewire my CP due to the different pin layouts...

I hope this helps...
MrH

 

[jkarp]

Wrong. The 2352 has a more robust relay output than the 2362.

Well, I don't own a 2352, but according to Auber, the relay version is a different part number.

Oh, and the 2362 has limit mode with relay and SSR output, if one wanted to use it.

 

[MrH]

Well, I don't own a 2352, but according to Auber, the relay version is a different part number.

Oh, and the 2362 has limit mode with relay and SSR output, if one wanted to use it.

Hmm, you know what, you're absolutely correct. I was reading the manual for the 2352 and I didn't realize it also covers the 2342 (relay model). It isn't clear in the manual, but it makes sense. That's too bad. It does have dual alarm relays, but they're only rated for 1A @ 240V. Hehe, I'll still stump for the 2352 for use in a rig, but for refrigeration, the 2362 might be a better bet (if 3A is enough for startup).

MrH

 

[MonkeyWrench]

I'll be doing BIAB and will also use the element for the 60+ minute boil, and won't want it to run "full blast" as that will boil the everliving snot out of it (and some say caramelize the wort).

Ok, I didn't realize you were boiling with it too.

In that case, why not just hook it to a dimmer? You can't use dimmer and SSR, but a dimmer on one or both legs should still be way cheaper and work for what you want.

 

[Grimster]

Ok, I didn't realize you were boiling with it too.

In that case, why not just hook it to a dimmer? You can't use dimmer and SSR, but a dimmer on one or both legs should still be way cheaper and work for what you want.

That was my initial idea till I priced dimmers that can do 25A @ 240V! Ouch those things are expensive. Makes a PID+SSR+HS+TC VERY cheap in comparison.

 

[MonkeyWrench]

I had no idea they were that spendy.

Since you will be using the PID in manual mode, I'd probably go cheap ebay PID for $35-40 with thermocouple and then a $17 SSR with heatsink. You won't be using the logic built in to the unit when you are manally controling the duty cycle.

 

[Grimster]

I had no idea they were that spendy.

Since you will be using the PID in manual mode, I'd probably go cheap ebay PID for $35-40 with thermocouple and then a $17 SSR with heatsink. You won't be using the logic built in to the unit when you are manally controling the duty cycle.

That's the OTHER rub, according to what I've read, a lot of the Ebay specials don't -have- a manual mode at all. Unless I totally misunderstood the descriptions.

 

[MrH]

I had no idea they were that spendy.

Since you will be using the PID in manual mode, I'd probably go cheap ebay PID for $35-40 with thermocouple and then a $17 SSR with heatsink. You won't be using the logic built in to the unit when you are manally controling the duty cycle.

Just be careful with the ebay PIDs. Most of the ones I've seen don't have manual mode.