At what gravity to bottle if no sugar is added for carbonation ?

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

naeco

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
167
Reaction score
1
Location
Ottawa, Canada
I'm doing pappers technique and it fermented so fast that I did not have enough time to bottle at 1.010 as recommended. It went from 1.052 to 1.003 in 5 days and it's too dry. I started a new batch today with Nothingham and added sugar until 1.052. I will check gravity everyday in 2 days to get it right.

I would like to get a finished product at 1.010 so if I want to avoid adding dextrose for priming, at what gravity should I bottle so I end up up a cider at 1.010 after carbonation and pasteurization ? How much sugar does carbonation consume ?

If it is better to use dextrose for carbonation, how much should be used for a 1 gallon batch in ML ?

thanks
 

Calder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
8,545
Reaction score
1,034
Location
Ohio
I usually prime 5 gallons with 5 ozs of cane sugar. That would be equal to 0.003 points.
 
OP
N

naeco

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
167
Reaction score
1
Location
Ottawa, Canada
So if I want my cider to be at 1.010 once carbonated and pasteurized, I should bottle at 1.013 ?
 
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
14,262
Reaction score
777
Location
Southwest
No. Your suggested method is a wild guess at best. You are setting yourself up for bottle bombs by bottling at 1.013, particularly if your last batch finished at 1.003.

There isn't a good way to stop fermentation AND bottle condition. Those acts are mutually exclusive. If you stabilize the cider with sorbate, for example, the yeast will become ineffective for bottling. If you don't stabilize, the cider will ferment to dryness (if your recipe typically finishes at 1.003), but you'll have active yeast for bottle conditioning.

If, on the other hand, you bottle at 1.013, your cider will finish fermenting in the bottle. If it is likely to finish at 1.003, there will probably be enough pressure in the bottles to make them shatter.

EDIT: If you intend to bottle at 1.013 and then somehow pasteurize at peak carbonation (before the cider fully ferments), I may have to bow out of the conversation. I have no idea how you could accurately do that. I doubt I'd try it, but it may be possible if the bottle conditioning proceeds slowly.
 
OP
N

naeco

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
167
Reaction score
1
Location
Ottawa, Canada
There isn't a good way to stop fermentation AND bottle condition.
I plan on using Pappers Easy Stove-Top Pasteurizing to pasteurize and kill of the yeast once desired carbonation level is achieve. From what I've read in his post, it's very easy to do and safe if you do it the right way !
 

Calder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
8,545
Reaction score
1,034
Location
Ohio
Personally, that sounds dangerous to me. I wouldn't risk it, but from what I have read here, it seems like a lot of people may have done it.
 

Pappers_

Moderator
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
17,912
Reaction score
4,392
Location
Chicago
Naeco, I wonder if your fermentation is super charged because of the sugar you are adding. In any case, if this is your first time pasteurizing, I would consider doing a batch without additional sugar and to let the cider ferment down to around 1.010 before bottling. In other words, follow the directions, then in future batches, change it up or experiment based on your experience.
 

dinnerstick

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2010
Messages
2,010
Reaction score
277
Location
utrecht
if your cider is anything like mine after 5 or so days it is going to be one thick yeasty drink. of course things will settle out in bottle but then you have the risks of 1. picking up dead yeasty flavors while it settles/ages in the bottle 2. pouring yourself a big glob of dead yeast and apple chunks. you could consider fermenting to dry and over-priming with fresh juice, again potentially dangerous but if you monitored it closely you might get it right?? i don't know
 
OP
N

naeco

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
167
Reaction score
1
Location
Ottawa, Canada
Naeco, I wonder if your fermentation is super charged because of the sugar you are adding. In any case, if this is your first time pasteurizing, I would consider doing a batch without additional sugar and to let the cider ferment down to around 1.010 before bottling. In other words, follow the directions, then in future batches, change it up or experiment based on your experience.
I added very little sugar as OG of the juice was 1.048 and I boosted it up to 1.052. I also added yeast nutrient the first time so it could be the reason why it fermented so fast. I want it sweet so I will bottle a 1.013 and add dextrose for priming.

Does 40ml of dextrose sound right for a 1 gal batch ?
 

Bombo80

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
484
Reaction score
42
Location
Maple Grove
I would be very careful about adding ANY sugar to your cider, while its still fermenting. I attempted the same thing you are trying. I checked my SG, and it went too low, so I added some sugar to bring it up to 1.014. It was still in such a vigorous fermentation, that in less than 48 hours I had bottle bombs. When I looked at my bottles, almost all the caps were bulging. I tried to pasturize one batch of six bottles that the caps weren't bulged, and every one exploded in the hot bath. I ended up opening the rest up. That was an interesting fiasco. Then I let it finish fermenting. I have not got back to trying the pasturization process yet. I let my cider finish fermenting and racked it into my bottling bucket with some honey, and bottled them the way it was. There was not much yeast left in the cider, since I let it sit for 2 weeks. But there was enough for it to carb on its own. It has been a month now, and it has carbed perfectly. With about 18 bottles left, I'm not going to worry about pasturizing them.

I do have several new batches of cider fermenting right now. I may try a different method this next time around. They are closing in on that 1.010 SG. I think I will crash chill them, very easy when it's zero outside, then rack the cider off, and leave as much of the yeast behind. Then depending on the SG, I will have to determine if I am going to add any sugar for bottle priming, then monitor the carb levels, and then get them into a warm water bath first, so there isn't such a temp difference when I go for the pasturizing at 160*.


I hope this helps guide you, after my explosive incidents.

Good luck
 

truckjohn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
391
Reaction score
14
Location
SC USA
Re: slowing down cider so it's easier to hit at the right time.... Can you stick it outside in the cold or in an unheated part of the building (Like the garage) when it gets close?

The yeast will still ferment -- albeit quite slowly.... I did this with my last batch of cider - stuck it outside when it hit 1.02 and topped it up with a can of apple juice concentrate.. It took about 2 weeks to get back down to 1.015 - where I bottled it.

Caveat - I pasteurize my sweet cider after bottling, so I don't much have to worry about it kicking back over.... but if I was going to back-sweeten and then bottle prime and then pasteurize... I would definitely sit it in the cold to slow it down a bunch. Sample a bottle every day and put it in the pot when the sweetness tastes right.

Be sure to put a lid on that pot - and keep the temp under close supervision.... Overheating it = Kaboom!

Thanks

John
 

Pappers_

Moderator
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
17,912
Reaction score
4,392
Location
Chicago
I would be very careful about adding ANY sugar to your cider, while its still fermenting.
I always add priming sugar to the cider when I bottle it, before it is done fermenting - usually around 1.010. Then I check the bottles for carbonation progress and pasteurize before they are over carbonated. I've done dozens of batches like this and have never had a bottle explode, either during pasteurizing or afterwards.
 

RugenBrau

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
757
Reaction score
7
Location
Finger Lakes
I have also pasteurized with no bottle bombs. (I do store them in a wooden case if they aren't in the cooler. You can't be to safe)
 
Top