Ash taste in pilsner

[Irish kiwi]

I have just brewed a NZ Pilsner using 3kg Vienna malt 3kg Pilsner and 300g light crystal. I hit my og of 1.049 and chilled to 10C before pitching a 1.5L starter of WLP800. It was fermented under pressure at 12psi The fermentation finished at 1.012 and after a 4 day diacetyl rest I cold crashed and started the lagering process at 1.5C. An ashy/ smoke flavour appeared after cold crash that was not present before. I cannot figure out what it is, anyone have any ideas?

 

[Miraculix]

Do you mean sulphurous?

 

[Irish kiwi]

Do you mean sulphurous?

No it’s not sulphurous it tastes like tobacco ash

 

[monkeymath]

No it’s not sulphurous it tastes like tobacco ash

Some sulphur compounds can give off aromas reminiscent of a burnt match.
Give it more time.

 

[Dgallo]

Smoke/tobacco can be phenols from an infection. What temp are you lagering, fridge temps?

Are you a smoker? Are smokers in the house? Do you smoke meat or have a woodstove/pellet stove where any ash could have made it into the keg before you racked it there.

These two would be my first thoughts for that off flavor

 

[Jocky]

No it’s not sulphurous it tastes like tobacco ash

The one time I've had this was where I did a very high wheat beer and the flour from the wheat burnt on the electric element.

I fermented it anyway as it didn't taste bad at the time, but after fermentation it tasted like an ash tray.

 

[cactusgarrett]

What is the water profile for this batch?

 

[Irish kiwi]

Smoke/tobacco can be phenols from an infection. What temp are you lagering, fridge temps?

Are you a smoker? Are smokers in the house? Do you smoke meat or have a woodstove/pellet stove where any ash could have made it into the keg before you racked it there.

These two would be my first thoughts for that off flavor

lagering at 1.5C In a fridge controlled by an stc1000 controller

fermenter is a fermzilla 30L with spunding kit
No smokers or bbqs near my brewing set up and no one smokes

 

[Irish kiwi]

What is the water profile for this batch?

 

[Dgallo]

lagering at 1.5C In a fridge controlled by an stc1000 controller

fermenter is a fermzilla 30L with spunding kit
No smokers or bbqs near my brewing set up and no one smokes

If it’s definitive Smokey character then you have to worry about infection or something getting in the keg. Especially if it didn’t have that character prior to cold crashing or kegging. That only opens up infection, debris in kegs or transfer, or issues with draught lines/taps.

 

[Irish kiwi]

If it’s definitive Smokey character then you have to worry about infection or something getting in the keg. Especially if it didn’t have that character prior to cold crashing or kegging. That only opens up infection, debris in kegs or transfer, or issues with draught lines/taps.

It’s infection I’m worried about but there is no other sign of it, by that I mean no tart sourness as you would expect from lacto or no pressure increase as you would expect from a bacterial infection which should have some gas release such as pediococcus

 

[Irish kiwi]

Some sulphur compounds can give off aromas reminiscent of a burnt match.
Give it more time.

Im hoping it is this but strangely enough I am not picking up any smoke aroma just the taste

 

[Dland]

Anything about the hops we should know?

 

[Irish kiwi]

Anything about the hops we should know?

Hallertauer Nz 30g @ 60 min
Wai-iti 30g @10 mins
Motueka 20g @10mins

I was aiming for a New Zealand Pilsner

 

[Irish kiwi]

I am using a s/s mash tun with false bottom draining into a custom built electric boiler with 2 exposed elements (could scorching be the issue?) and use the boilers to maintain mash temp through a modified rims set up using a magnetically driven stainless centrifugal pump to recirculated the wort for lautering

 

[Dland]

Yes, it could be, if elements not completely submerged, or in contact w any solids not completely suspended in liquid.

 

[bierhaus15]

This is a flavor that comes up occasionally; most often it is due to scorching via electric elements, especially if you have bits of protein or trub that gets burnt onto the metal. If it was phenols from an infection, you'd know.

Occasionally it can be ingredient driven - some hops can have an ashy flavor, especially in late harvest examples. Apollo, for instance. Also, a small amount of black or roasted malt when used with very light malts can also give that impression. I find dark carafa malts tend to have more of that character than something like blackprintz or midnight wheat.

 

[Irish kiwi]

Thanks for your help guys, I pulled another small sample last night and the ashy taste was massively reduced. I think I will leave it lager for another 2-3 weeks and see how it goes, in the mean time I will disassemble my boiler and probably change out my coil element that is hard to clean for a straight stainless bar element that seems to be much easier to remover build up off of. I think I will do a deep clean/ sterilisation of all hoses, valves, ports etc to ensure I don’t have a lingering infection issue

 

[ITV]

I recently had an infection in a batch of beer that was acedic acid (vinagar) which is from the cold side.

Since I have a plate chiller I started there by soaking it with a solution of beer line cleaner. Then I took a brush to my hoses to clean the insides along with a hot soak in PBW solution. Then I did a through cleaning of my conical fermenter and RIMS tube as well as cleaned the inside of my upright freezer (fermentation chamber) with a bleach solution.

Just before I filled my fermenter with my next (current) batch of beer, I sprayed it down with starsan. Previously I would clean, rinse and starsan my fermenter and seal it up after cleaning. I didn't think that it was very sanitary to store it sealed up with a coating of liquid starsan, now I store it with the valves open and starsan it just before filling.

So far my current batch is fermenting away with no indication of infection.

I suggest trying to clean your coil element by soaking it overnight in a beer line cleaner solution.