Are closed transfers worth the extra effort?

[Blazinlow86]

I like the question OP.

Lately I'm in a funk with multiple aspects of kegging. I believe I've got a slow leak in my system and wasted 2 bottles of gas. Still not sure where it is but I suspect I need to replace some of my poppets.

When closed transfers go well they add about 90 minutes to my packaging exercise. This comes from the time to purge 3 kegs using the push the star san method followed by the slow filling from the fermentor into those same kegs.

I have a plastic Speidel fermentor sitting in a fridge about 18" off the ground. It is too heavy to lift when full so gravity draining is not an option. I have a large ss dip tube and 1/2 ball valve on the fermentor and a gas post on the lid. I can pressurize it to about 2-3 PSI without blowing the lid. Best of days filling those 3 kegs is very slow.

Most of the time however they simply will not fill. The poppets quickly plug and your closed transfer is over. I have done the thing with taking out the poppet from the post and the plunger from the connector and that works. But now you don't have a sealed system and your closed transfer is compromised anyway.

I am playing with some alternative solutions. One I have had good luck with before is keg priming. Just do a half ass purge, fill the keg, and add some sugar. Just like bottle priming. Unlike bottle priming you can also dry hop the keg at the same time. I never had much issue with settling the yeast, pulling and dumping first 2-3 pints with this method but this year will try the clear beer draft system and see how that goes.

Second strategy I am checking out is a small metabisulfite addition at kegging time. This might be able to remove the oxygen introduced by sloppy kegging. Read about it on one of those experiments and thought I'd give it a try on current batch. Can't say for sure it helped but didn't seem to create any off flavors either and the beer is still drinking well.

Last thing that has always worked well for me is to leave keg one alone, dry hop keg 2 when I start serving keg 1, then dryhop keg 3 when I start serving keg 2. Maybe I am losing hop flavors and aromas to oxidation so just add them back.

Anyway I'd be really curious to hear from homebrewers that have done closed transfers with regular fermentors and then switched over to something like the Spike CF10. Does this make packaging day much easier? Or is it just shifting the work and aggravation around?

I went from 3 carboys to the cf15. It's WAY easier in every aspect. Cheers

 

[Rodent]

I

where do you keep the starsan between purging

I keep it in the clean on-deck keg that will be next up for purging

 

[eric19312]

I went from 3 carboys to the cf15. It's WAY easier in every aspect. Cheers

thanks for the confirmation...hopefully soon for me

 

[knash3]

I've been using these filters and methods published by Scott Janish: http://scottjanish.com/my-favorite-way-to-dry-hop-loose-in-primary-and-kegs/.

Often have flow problems coming out of the dry hop kegs and into the serving kegs, as in the filters around the dip tube become clogged as volume declines. Swirling often restores flow, but still may leave some beer behind. I'm reluctant to remove poppets as some have advised, as that's inviting oxygen. Next dry hop will use lupulin powder, so hopeful that less volume = less clogging. (of course, smaller particles may be problematic). Will see.

Definitely keeping oxygen away improves hoppy IPA's. I think the degree of discussion on closed transfers is evidence of the imperfect options. Things that are simple and consistently work become standard practice for all of us. Hop sacks work, but reduce utilization. Filters work, but sometimes clog. Dry hops in serving kegs works, but can lead to stale flavor.

 

[beernutz]

This has got to in the running for most typical HBT post of the year as it includes multiple tangents from OP issue, some good information, some personal insults, a bit of trolling, and a meta comment about the thread (that would be me).

 

[Blazinlow86]

This has got to in the running for most typical HBT post of the year as it includes multiple tangents from OP issue, some good information, some personal insults, a bit of trolling, and a meta comment about the thread (that would be me).

Pretty typical of HBT. With such a wide range of opinions, goals, skill levels, pickyness it's like getting all religions groups together in a room to debate who's correct. Something as simple as "is 02 actually bad for my beer" turns into a big debate lol. Cheers

 

[matridium]

I've been using these filters and methods published by Scott Janish: http://scottjanish.com/my-favorite-way-to-dry-hop-loose-in-primary-and-kegs/.

Often have flow problems coming out of the dry hop kegs and into the serving kegs, as in the filters around the dip tube become clogged as volume declines. Swirling often restores flow, but still may leave some beer behind. I'm reluctant to remove poppets as some have advised, as that's inviting oxygen. Next dry hop will use lupulin powder, so hopeful that less volume = less clogging. (of course, smaller particles may be problematic). Will see.

Definitely keeping oxygen away improves hoppy IPA's. I think the degree of discussion on closed transfers is evidence of the imperfect options. Things that are simple and consistently work become standard practice for all of us. Hop sacks work, but reduce utilization. Filters work, but sometimes clog. Dry hops in serving kegs works, but can lead to stale flavor.

I skip filters and use this device I built. The idea is a sliding racking cane, I saw someone else do this and tried to improve it. This works great beceuse I can start at the top of the beer and push it in to the closed system and stay off the trub. Yes I do get some hop particles but nothing major. I usually brew Belgians with medium hop additions and no dry hops. However this transfer is from last night and it's NEIPA, no major problems, no clogging and very little hop transfer into secondary. I bypass the liquid puppets and springs so nothing to clog. If your interested let me know, I can share the build.

 

[eric19312]

I posted it in another link but this $14 inline filter was a game changer on my system.

super easy to use and just stopped the main problem...hop particles clogging poppets.

 

[day_trippr]

I do essentially the same thing - inside the fermentor...

Cheers!

 

[Jako]

Very cool. I had a issue with a coffee Baltic porter. I will have to try it next time

 

[matridium]

I posted it in another link but this $14 inline filter was a game changer on my system.

View attachment 638798 super easy to use and just stopped the main problem...hop particles clogging poppets.

Where did you purchase the online filter?

 

[kevink]

I posted it in another link but this $14 inline filter was a game changer on my system.

View attachment 638798 super easy to use and just stopped the main problem...hop particles clogging poppets.

This filter is awesome. I just started using one (2 batches so far) and it is a game changer for me, too!

 

[kevink]

Where did you purchase the online filter?

VacMotion makes them. They're called inline strainers.

 

[mongoose33]

Here's an amazon link to them:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=vacmotion+inline+strainer&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

 

[epratt]

I posted it in another link but this $14 inline filter was a game changer on my system.

View attachment 638798 super easy to use and just stopped the main problem...hop particles clogging poppets.

Do you run into problems with the poppet on the fermentation keg clogging (before it get's to the filter)? I have a screen filter like the one Scott Janish suggested in the post mentioned above but still have clogging problems at the poppet. Wondering if this may help with that problem.

 

[eric19312]

Do you run into problems with the poppet on the fermentation keg clogging (before it get's to the filter)? I have a screen filter like the one Scott Janish suggested in the post mentioned above but still have clogging problems at the poppet. Wondering if this may help with that problem.

I’m fermenting in a 60L speidel. No poppet in front of filter.

 

[matridium]

Do you run into problems with the poppet on the fermentation keg clogging (before it get's to the filter)? I have a screen filter like the one Scott Janish suggested in the post mentioned above but still have clogging problems at the poppet. Wondering if this may help with that problem.

I just transfered tonight with that filter inline but my system uses no poppets I use a straight through system that I slide into the keg as it transfers under pressure. I usually don't have much material getting though because of my design but now the filter adds that extra layer of protection and it did stop some particular matter from getting through.