Are closed transfers worth the extra effort?

[mongoose33]

Nah, it's not. CO2 is denser than air. Never had oxidation problems with the medals to prove it.

Unfortunately, it is a myth. Seems to me @doug293cz the moderator has a post on here demonstrating why that's the case.

CO2 and other elements in the air will mix; you can't stop it.

I have a theory the reason people think "blanket"--and I was in that camp, so I'm not simon-pure here--is that they see dry ice sublimate and the cold gases fall. That's actually water vapor you see condensing out of the air, and because it's so cold, it falls or settles lower. But CO2 will mix with air--and oxygen--and that's just the way gases work.

Later I may try to find the post.

 

[Big Monk]

Unfortunately, it is a myth. Seems to me @doug293cz the moderator has a post on here demonstrating why that's the case.

CO2 and other elements in the air will mix; you can't stop it.

I have a theory the reason people think "blanket"--and I was in that camp, so I'm not simon-pure here--is that they see dry ice sublimate and the cold gases fall. That's actually water vapor you see condensing out of the air, and because it's so cold, it falls or settles lower. But CO2 will mix with air--and oxygen--and that's just the way gases work.

Later I may try to find the post.

Is this the one?:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/keg-purging-with-active-fermentation.628658/

 

[TheMadKing]

Unfortunately, it is a myth. Seems to me @doug293cz the moderator has a post on here demonstrating why that's the case.

CO2 and other elements in the air will mix; you can't stop it.

I have a theory the reason people think "blanket"--and I was in that camp, so I'm not simon-pure here--is that they see dry ice sublimate and the cold gases fall. That's actually water vapor you see condensing out of the air, and because it's so cold, it falls or settles lower. But CO2 will mix with air--and oxygen--and that's just the way gases work.

Later I may try to find the post.

To be fair, a CO2 "blanket" does exist for a second or two if you suddenly expose a CO2 atmosphere to normal air (if you open a liquid purged keg for example). Gas diffusion begins instantly, so yes air gets into the headspace instantly , but if you open a liquid purged keg and siphon beer into it you DO have a protective volume of CO2 over the incoming beer until enough gas diffusion happens for O2 to come into contact with the surface of the beer (probably a few seconds).

CO2 IS heavier than air, so as long as it's concentrated it will fill the lower part of whatever space its in. As soon as gas diffusion happens, the concentration will eventually become uniformly distributed within the container along with whatever other gas is in there. I don't know how long that takes in a CO2/Air environment though.

Does it protect your beer, no not at all, is it completely a backwards idea? Only after a few seconds

 

[eric19312]

I like the question OP.

Lately I'm in a funk with multiple aspects of kegging. I believe I've got a slow leak in my system and wasted 2 bottles of gas. Still not sure where it is but I suspect I need to replace some of my poppets.

When closed transfers go well they add about 90 minutes to my packaging exercise. This comes from the time to purge 3 kegs using the push the star san method followed by the slow filling from the fermentor into those same kegs.

I have a plastic Speidel fermentor sitting in a fridge about 18" off the ground. It is too heavy to lift when full so gravity draining is not an option. I have a large ss dip tube and 1/2 ball valve on the fermentor and a gas post on the lid. I can pressurize it to about 2-3 PSI without blowing the lid. Best of days filling those 3 kegs is very slow.

Most of the time however they simply will not fill. The poppets quickly plug and your closed transfer is over. I have done the thing with taking out the poppet from the post and the plunger from the connector and that works. But now you don't have a sealed system and your closed transfer is compromised anyway.

I am playing with some alternative solutions. One I have had good luck with before is keg priming. Just do a half ass purge, fill the keg, and add some sugar. Just like bottle priming. Unlike bottle priming you can also dry hop the keg at the same time. I never had much issue with settling the yeast, pulling and dumping first 2-3 pints with this method but this year will try the clear beer draft system and see how that goes.

Second strategy I am checking out is a small metabisulfite addition at kegging time. This might be able to remove the oxygen introduced by sloppy kegging. Read about it on one of those experiments and thought I'd give it a try on current batch. Can't say for sure it helped but didn't seem to create any off flavors either and the beer is still drinking well.

Last thing that has always worked well for me is to leave keg one alone, dry hop keg 2 when I start serving keg 1, then dryhop keg 3 when I start serving keg 2. Maybe I am losing hop flavors and aromas to oxidation so just add them back.

Anyway I'd be really curious to hear from homebrewers that have done closed transfers with regular fermentors and then switched over to something like the Spike CF10. Does this make packaging day much easier? Or is it just shifting the work and aggravation around?

 

[TheMadKing]

I like the question OP.

Lately I'm in a funk with multiple aspects of kegging. I believe I've got a slow leak in my system and wasted 2 bottles of gas. Still not sure where it is but I suspect I need to replace some of my poppets.

When closed transfers go well they add about 90 minutes to my packaging exercise. This comes from the time to purge 3 kegs using the push the star san method followed by the slow filling from the fermentor into those same kegs.

I have a plastic Speidel fermentor sitting in a fridge about 18" off the ground. It is too heavy to lift when full so gravity draining is not an option. I have a large ss dip tube and 1/2 ball valve on the fermentor and a gas post on the lid. I can pressurize it to about 2-3 PSI without blowing the lid. Best of days filling those 3 kegs is very slow.

Most of the time however they simply will not fill. The poppets quickly plug and your closed transfer is over. I have done the thing with taking out the poppet from the post and the plunger from the connector and that works. But now you don't have a sealed system and your closed transfer is compromised anyway.

I am playing with some alternative solutions. One I have had good luck with before is keg priming. Just do a half ass purge, fill the keg, and add some sugar. Just like bottle priming. Unlike bottle priming you can also dry hop the keg at the same time. I never had much issue with settling the yeast, pulling and dumping first 2-3 pints with this method but this year will try the clear beer draft system and see how that goes.

Second strategy I am checking out is a small metabisulfite addition at kegging time. This might be able to remove the oxygen introduced by sloppy kegging. Read about it on one of those experiments and thought I'd give it a try on current batch. Can't say for sure it helped but didn't seem to create any off flavors either and the beer is still drinking well.

Last thing that has always worked well for me is to leave keg one alone, dry hop keg 2 when I start serving keg 1, then dryhop keg 3 when I start serving keg 2. Maybe I am losing hop flavors and aromas to oxidation so just add them back.

Anyway I'd be really curious to hear from homebrewers that have done closed transfers with regular fermentors and then switched over to something like the Spike CF10. Does this make packaging day much easier? Or is it just shifting the work and aggravation around?

Why don't you buy a manifold and purge all 3 kegs simultaneously at 20 PSI (should like less than 10 minutes), and cold crash your beer before kegging, or add a filter to the end of your racking cane to prevent hop debris from getting in?

Also on your leak, disconnect all your kegs from your CO2 system but keep the lines charged, and then shut off the gas from the tank. If the lines hold pressure overnight then you know the problem is either in one of your kegs or at the gas post on one of them

 

[mongoose33]

Is this the one?:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/keg-purging-with-active-fermentation.628658/

It's not the one I meant, but it's a great post on purging nonetheless.

This isn't exactly the one I remember, but it's pretty much the same thing:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/help-leaky-fermentation-bucket-lid.580534/#post-7536153

I'm going to take the liberty of quoting it directly and fixing the youtube link from the original.

The protective CO2 blanket is a myth. If it wasn't we would all suffocate since the "air" at ground level would be mostly CO2. Also, check out the video below. Br2 is 3.6 times as heavy as CO2 (159.8 vs. 44), but completely mixes with air in about 30 minutes. CO2 is about the same weight as NO2 (44 vs. 46), which mixes with air even faster than Br2, as shown later in the video. So, please stop spreading the myth about a CO2 blanket.



Brew on

Scotty, as a sort of extension of what you've quoted above (about purging), I've thought about trying to find a way to release CO2 under low pressure down into the BK when I'm transferring wort to it. I use a lauter cap but it's inefficient because I have a whirlpool arm as well as electric element in there, and only when the level rises enough does it work effectively.

So I thought what if I suspended a bit of tubing into the bottom of the kettle so that it would flood the kettle with CO2. It wouldn't form a blanket per se, but it would displace at least some of the oxygen. See what I spend my free time thinking about?

Anyway, as Doug says, "Brew on"

 

[Brewtopalonian]

Fair enough, thanks for the science lesson.

 

[doug293cz]

Unfortunately, it is a myth. Seems to me @doug293cz the moderator has a post on here demonstrating why that's the case.

CO2 and other elements in the air will mix; you can't stop it.

I have a theory the reason people think "blanket"--and I was in that camp, so I'm not simon-pure here--is that they see dry ice sublimate and the cold gases fall. That's actually water vapor you see condensing out of the air, and because it's so cold, it falls or settles lower. But CO2 will mix with air--and oxygen--and that's just the way gases work.

Later I may try to find the post.

I have made a post like this too many times to count. Here's the video that shows gas diffusion in action. Br2 is 3.6 times heavier than CO2, and it homogenizes with still air in about 30 minutes. NO2 (later in the video) is about the same molecular weight as CO2, and you can see it interdiffuses with air much faster than Br2. So, mixing starts immediately, and homogenization of air and CO2 takes much less than 30 minutes.



Brew on

Is this the one?:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/keg-purging-with-active-fermentation.628658/

No, that's not the one mongoose is talking about, but it is a post I am very proud of.

Brew on

Edit: I see mongoose beat me to it.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Why does everyone believe in the principle of diffusion on this thread, yet objects to pouring priming solution into a primary fermenter, mixing gently without disturbing the cake, then waiting say 30 minutes and bottling straight out of primary?

It has worked fine for me, but most will swear you NEED to use a bottling bucket....
Same concept...

 

[Brewtopalonian]

Why does everyone believe in the principle of diffusion on this thread, yet objects to pouring priming solution into a primary fermenter, mixing gently without disturbing the cake, then waiting say 30 minutes and bottling straight out of primary?

It has worked fine for me, but most will swear you NEED to use a bottling bucket....
Same concept...

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Now I'm sure someone is going to chime in and tell me I'm wrong on the basis of yeast autolysis or something of the sort, but I would say it isn't worth racking to secondary and exposing to air. Bottle straight out of primary. Your fine.

 

[day_trippr]

Why does everyone believe in the principle of diffusion on this thread, yet objects to pouring priming solution into a primary fermenter, mixing gently without disturbing the cake, then waiting say 30 minutes and bottling straight out of primary?[...]

I don't bottle so I'm unfamiliar with what folks object to with that. Does "everyone" believe there's an oxygen-exposure issue that's somehow different from racking to a bottling bucket and mixing there...or is it more a matter of excessive trub making it into bottles due to mixing primer in a fermentor?

Cheers!

 

[Big Monk]

I don't bottle so I'm unfamiliar with what folks object to with that. Does "everyone" believe there's an oxygen-exposure issue that's somehow different from racking to a bottling bucket and mixing there...or is it more a matter of excessive trub making it into bottles due to mixing primer in a fermentor?

Cheers!

I bottle a few points shy (I don’t wing it, I calculate very rigorously) of final gravity on my LO batches. On normal batches (yes I still do those as well in a pinch) I dose each bottle with a priming solution in a syringe then bottle off the primary.

 

[day_trippr]

Umm....ok, so not a believer in mixing primer into a primary.
Duly noted, I suspect I'd take the same position.
Waiting on WB's take...

Cheers!

 

[doug293cz]

Why does everyone believe in the principle of diffusion on this thread, yet objects to pouring priming solution into a primary fermenter, mixing gently without disturbing the cake, then waiting say 30 minutes and bottling straight out of primary?

It has worked fine for me, but most will swear you NEED to use a bottling bucket....
Same concept...

Yes, diffusion in solutions works just like diffusion in gases, it just takes a lot longer. Stirring obviously greatly speeds up mixing. If you're not seeing bottle to bottle differences in your carb levels, then you are mixing the priming sugar well enough.

Brew on

 

[SoCal-Doug]

One of the best investments I ever made in brewing was a counter pressure bottle filler. Hate bottling. Still hate it. But competitions don't take kegs and sometimes the beer-ho friends need a to-go container

 

[Andrew7447]

Why does everyone believe in the principle of diffusion on this thread, yet objects to pouring priming solution into a primary fermenter, mixing gently without disturbing the cake, then waiting say 30 minutes and bottling straight out of primary?

It has worked fine for me, but most will swear you NEED to use a bottling bucket....
Same concept...

Tried this once. I didnt have constant carbonation. Maybe im crazy.

 

[eric19312]

Why don't you buy a manifold and purge all 3 kegs simultaneously at 20 PSI (should like less than 10 minutes), and cold crash your beer before kegging, or add a filter to the end of your racking cane to prevent hop debris from getting in?

Also on your leak, disconnect all your kegs from your CO2 system but keep the lines charged, and then shut off the gas from the tank. If the lines hold pressure overnight then you know the problem is either in one of your kegs or at the gas post on one of them

Thanks
Not sure I understand the idea behind the manifold. Would I need 15 gallons of star san to purge 3 kegs at same time? The way I do it now is keg to keg with only 5 gallons.

I'll get that leak I'm sure but while I have no intention of going back to bottling after kegging about 100 batches I still do find the kegging process tedious. It was not so bad when I brewed with a friend about every other week and could keg and brew on same day. But I'm brewing solo about every 5-6 weeks these days and that means kegging is it's own mini brew day.

 

[TheMadKing]

Thanks
Not sure I understand the idea behind the manifold. Would I need 15 gallons of star san to purge 3 kegs at same time? The way I do it now is keg to keg with only 5 gallons.

I'll get that leak I'm sure but while I have no intention of going back to bottling after kegging about 100 batches I still do find the kegging process tedious. It was not so bad when I brewed with a friend about every other week and could keg and brew on same day. But I'm brewing solo about every 5-6 weeks these days and that means kegging is it's own mini brew day.

Kegging should really never take more than 30 minutes... If it takes that much effort I think you may have a process issue. I do a closed transfer under CO2 pressure with 5 gallons batches and it takes 10-15 minutes or so. I keep my kegs stored full of star san, so I just have to push it out, pop the beer transfer line onto the poppet, attach CO2 to my fermentor input port, set the pressure at 2 PSI and have a beer.

Yes you would need to make 15 gallons of starsan to purge all 3 kegs simultaneously, but you could push it all out into 5 gallon buckets and re-use it several times. The time savings alone are worth the $1.50 extra in Star San cost and $15 in home depot buckets.

What is the long time suck during your kegging process that's making it take hours?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Kegging should really never take more than 30 minutes... If it takes that much effort I think you may have a process issue. I do a closed transfer under CO2 pressure with 5 gallons batches and it takes 10-15 minutes or so. I keep my kegs stored full of star san, so I just have to push it out, pop the beer transfer line onto the poppet, attach CO2 to my fermentor input port, set the pressure at 2 PSI and have a beer.

Yes you would need to make 15 gallons of starsan to purge all 3 kegs simultaneously, but you could push it all out into 5 gallon buckets and re-use it several times. The time savings alone are worth the $1.50 extra in Star San cost and $15 in home depot buckets.

What is the long time suck during your kegging process that's making it take hours?

If you connect the 3 kegs in series, or what some call “daisy chain”, couldn’t you purge all 3 w/ say 5.5 gallons of star San?

 

[TheMadKing]

If you connect the 3 kegs in series, or what some call “daisy chain”, couldn’t you purge all 3 w/ say 5.5 gallons of star San?

Absolutely! Which is what he currently does, but he was saying that his kegging routine was taking too long (90+ minutes), so my suggestion was a time saving measure

 

[eric19312]

Kegging should really never take more than 30 minutes... If it takes that much effort I think you may have a process issue. I do a closed transfer under CO2 pressure with 5 gallons batches and it takes 10-15 minutes or so. I keep my kegs stored full of star san, so I just have to push it out, pop the beer transfer line onto the poppet, attach CO2 to my fermentor input port, set the pressure at 2 PSI and have a beer.

Yes you would need to make 15 gallons of starsan to purge all 3 kegs simultaneously, but you could push it all out into 5 gallon buckets and re-use it several times. The time savings alone are worth the $1.50 extra in Star San cost and $15 in home depot buckets.

What is the long time suck during your kegging process that's making it take hours?

I know you mentioned cold crashing, I do cold crash to about 35F over two days before kegging and usually fine with gelatin about half way through the cold crash.

I usually clean a few kegs at start of filling operation. When a keg kicks I pull it from keezer but keep it pressurized. Then on kegging day I clean all dirty kegs. Disassemble posts and poppets, rinse well, run on Mark II keg washer with hot PBW for 10 min, rinse well, reassemble. Some of the steps can be done in parallel but if I have 3-4 kegs that need to be cleaned this process will take up to an hour.

Once I have two clean kegs first is filled with starsan. Usually do make a new batch which is a few minutes. I then use combination of gravity and CO2 at about 5 psi to push the starsan from keg to keg. This takes about 10 min per keg. I'm now about 90 minutes into packaging day and have 3 purged kegs and probably a fourth clean keg full of star-san.

While those are going I will also get my beer transfer line ready and sanitize fittings between fermentor and transfer line. Then hook up pressure to the fermentor, give a bit of pressure and start transfering. If I am very lucky this will take about 20 minutes per keg. If I get a clogged poppet it will take much longer as I will have to stop the transfer, disassemble the poppet, sanitize, reassemble and start transferring again. All while cursing the fact that my closed transfer has been compromised and knowing full well that if it clogged once it is probably going to clog again. Most beers I make I get a clogged poppet. These are typically ales with about 6oz dry hop in the fermentor. I do try to turn my diptube to be pulling beer from above the trub but doesnt take much of that hop material to clog the poppet.

So anyway on a good day the filling of the kegs is a 60 minute project and I'm at 2.5 hours. Then I harvest or dump the yeast and clean the fermentor. By the time everything is clean, packed and put away, full kegs are loaded into keezer and hooked up to pressure I am over 3 hours and if I did a good job with cleanup probably over that.

 

[TheMadKing]

I know you mentioned cold crashing, I do cold crash to about 35F over two days before kegging and usually fine with gelatin about half way through the cold crash.

I usually clean a few kegs at start of filling operation. When a keg kicks I pull it from keezer but keep it pressurized. Then on kegging day I clean all dirty kegs. Disassemble posts and poppets, rinse well, run on Mark II keg washer with hot PBW for 10 min, rinse well, reassemble. Some of the steps can be done in parallel but if I have 3-4 kegs that need to be cleaned this process will take up to an hour.

Once I have two clean kegs first is filled with starsan. Usually do make a new batch which is a few minutes. I then use combination of gravity and CO2 at about 5 psi to push the starsan from keg to keg. This takes about 10 min per keg. I'm now about 90 minutes into packaging day and have 3 purged kegs and probably a fourth clean keg full of star-san.

While those are going I will also get my beer transfer line ready and sanitize fittings between fermentor and transfer line. Then hook up pressure to the fermentor, give a bit of pressure and start transfering. If I am very lucky this will take about 20 minutes per keg. If I get a clogged poppet it will take much longer as I will have to stop the transfer, disassemble the poppet, sanitize, reassemble and start transferring again. All while cursing the fact that my closed transfer has been compromised and knowing full well that if it clogged once it is probably going to clog again. Most beers I make I get a clogged poppet. These are typically ales with about 6oz dry hop in the fermentor. I do try to turn my diptube to be pulling beer from above the trub but doesnt take much of that hop material to clog the poppet.

So anyway on a good day the filling of the kegs is a 60 minute project and I'm at 2.5 hours. Then I harvest or dump the yeast and clean the fermentor. By the time everything is clean, packed and put away, full kegs are loaded into keezer and hooked up to pressure I am over 3 hours and if I did a good job with cleanup probably over that.

So a few suggestions based on this:

It sounds like you are cleaning excessively and saving it all up for your kegging day.

When I clean my kegs, I clean based on what beer was in it beforehand. Unless it had some crazy flavors in it, I usually just rinse everything with hot water 2-3 times and fill it with Star San. I only break down my poppets about every 3-4 batches and usually I'll soak them and the keg in oxyclean overnight, rinse and reassemble and fill it with Star San the next day. So if you do the cleaning as you go, that will save you a ton of time on kegging day.

You can save a little time by increasing your CO2 pressure for pushing the Start San out. If you do all 3 kegs in parallel that's 20 minutes saved right there.

You can also use your beer transfer line for the star san push, so it's already sanitized by the time your kegs are purged.

You could try dry hopping using a mesh bag, or put a filter on the end of your racking cane. I've never experienced a clogged poppet before but it sounds like something that should be avoided at all costs.

You could also use larger diameter lines for transferring. There's no reason to use 3/16" lines on uncarbonated beer or starsan. Also you could try turning up the PSI on your transfer to push the beer in a little faster. If you daisychain your kegs during the fill process you can also fill all 3 kegs without moving any connections.

Even with 4 kegs you should be able to get your kegging day time down around an hour I would think. Parallel work and prep work go a long way to reducing task time.

 

[doug293cz]

If you connect the 3 kegs in series, or what some call “daisy chain”, couldn’t you purge all 3 w/ say 5.5 gallons of star San?

No. Think about what happens. Beer out on first keg connected to gas in on second keg, beer out on second keg connected to gas in on third keg, and beer out on third keg empties to bucket. Start pushing gas into first keg - SS goes into second keg, but as soon as the level reaches the dip tube, SS starts getting pushed to the third keg. Same thing happens in the third keg. Kegs two and three never fill up with SS. When pushing SS from one keg to another, you have to connect beer out to beer out, and then move the CO2 to the second keg to empty it.

Brew on

 

[eric19312]

So a few suggestions based on this:

It sounds like you are cleaning excessively and saving it all up for your kegging day.

When I clean my kegs, I clean based on what beer was in it beforehand. Unless it had some crazy flavors in it, I usually just rinse everything with hot water 2-3 times and fill it with Star San. I only break down my poppets about every 3-4 batches and usually I'll soak them and the keg in oxyclean overnight, rinse and reassemble and fill it with Star San the next day. So if you do the cleaning as you go, that will save you a ton of time on kegging day.

You can save a little time by increasing your CO2 pressure for pushing the Start San out. If you do all 3 kegs in parallel that's 20 minutes saved right there.

You can also use your beer transfer line for the star san push, so it's already sanitized by the time your kegs are purged.

You could try dry hopping using a mesh bag, or put a filter on the end of your racking cane. I've never experienced a clogged poppet before but it sounds like something that should be avoided at all costs.

You could also use larger diameter lines for transferring. There's no reason to use 3/16" lines on uncarbonated beer or starsan. Also you could try turning up the PSI on your transfer to push the beer in a little faster. If you daisychain your kegs during the fill process you can also fill all 3 kegs without moving any connections.

Even with 4 kegs you should be able to get your kegging day time down around an hour I would think. Parallel work and prep work go a long way to reducing task time.

OK thanks for this I'm starting to see the light

1 - I will clean as I go on the kegs and stop saving that job for kegging day. I will probably continue to break down poppets every batch until I get a handle on the clogging issue but storing kegs full of star-san until kegging day sounds like a decent plan and the manifold idea makes sense in that context.

2 - I'll invest in some bags for dry hopping and see if that helps with clogging. I'g gladly increase my hopping rate to compensate for the bag if it eliminated the clogging issue.

I don't use a racking cane - i pull from a dip tube at the bottom. I can rotate the dip tub so it is out of the trub but it is always a guess. Part of my problem is lack of room to work above the fermentor. I've only got about 6" to work with so no way to use a racking cane or a dry hop cylinder.

I'm curious about the daisy chain. Would this mean pushing the beer from keg to keg by filling the keg all the way to the top until it starts overflowing from the gas in line? Sounds like a cool idea so long as I get a handle on the clogging issue. Would solve my other problem of sitting there watching the slow ass transfer trying to to guestimate when the keg is full and ready to swap.

 

[mongoose33]

No. Think about what happens. Beer out on first keg connected to gas in on second keg, beer out on second keg connected to gas in on third keg, and beer out on third keg empties to bucket. Start pushing gas into first keg - SS goes into second keg, but as soon as the level reaches the dip tube, SS starts getting pushed to the third keg. Same thing happens in the third keg. Kegs two and three never fill up with SS. When pushing SS from one keg to another, you have to connect beer out to beer out, and then move the CO2 to the second keg to empty it.

Brew on

Another thing that happens with the daisy-chain approach is you don't completely empty a keg of air; there's always headspace at the top (where the lid is) that isn't completely filled.

When I fill a keg w/ Star-San to purge it, I always leave the lid open and then hit it with CO2 through the OUT port. This bubbles CO2 up from the bottom and completely fills the headspace and inside area of the lid with bubbles, all of which contain....CO2!

Then I "cap on foam" by putting the lid down inside, continue to generate bubbles, and then close it up. If I do it right, the only thing in the headspace is bubbles filled with CO2.

This is my standard way of doing that, but a word of warning--once the CO2 starts bubbling up, if you have too much pressure you'll create a surge of star-san out of the keg and onto the floor. So watch and keep connecting/disconnecting the QD on the OUT port as needed.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Couldn’t one daisy chain and leave the lids loose, installed and not clamped on kegs 2 and 3, once starsan, or starsan foam begins exiting the lid area, clamp it tight and then begin pushing to the next keg in the chain?

 

[doug293cz]

Couldn’t one daisy chain and leave the lids loose, installed and not clamped on kegs 2 and 3, once starsan, or starsan foam begins exiting the lid area, clamp it tight and then begin pushing to the next keg in the chain?

How much liquid StarSan do you think you'd get in a keg, filling thru the gas post, before foam started flowing out the lid? I'm pretty sure that the keg won't be close to full before it foams over. Shouldn't be hard to test.

Brew on

 

[brewbama]

Why does everyone believe in the principle of diffusion on this thread, yet objects to pouring priming solution into a primary fermenter, mixing gently without disturbing the cake, then waiting say 30 minutes and bottling straight out of primary?

It has worked fine for me, but most will swear you NEED to use a bottling bucket....
Same concept...

I’ve done that ...but closed transferred into a keg after priming the primary fermenter. Didn’t even stir it. Just poured it in and closed transferred. Works great.

 

[TheMadKing]

How much liquid StarSan do you think you'd get in a keg, filling thru the gas post, before foam started flowing out the lid? I'm pretty sure that the keg won't be close to full before it foams over. Shouldn't be hard to test.

Brew on

Why wouldn't you fill through the liquid post? that's what I do and you get virtually zero foaming.

So you would go: Keg full to the brim with star san - Liquid post to liquid post - until star san blows out the gas post of the second keg - that gas post out would be connected to the liquid post of the third keg, which begins to fill until star san blows out the gas post of that keg

You could also just place a chalk/shim under you keg so that the gas post is the high point in the keg. This would mean that the star san wouldn't flow to the next keg until all air is purged from the keg. This would also depend on the fact that your gas posts are cut short enough to allow the headspace to fill the slight dimple where the the post port is (if that makes any sense from someone 5 beers deep)..

 

[TheMadKing]

I don't use a racking cane - i pull from a dip tube at the bottom. I can rotate the dip tub so it is out of the trub but it is always a guess. Part of my problem is lack of room to work above the fermentor. I've only got about 6" to work with so no way to use a racking cane or a dry hop cylinder.

I'm curious about the daisy chain. Would this mean pushing the beer from keg to keg by filling the keg all the way to the top until it starts overflowing from the gas in line? Sounds like a cool idea so long as I get a handle on the clogging issue. Would solve my other problem of sitting there watching the slow ass transfer trying to to guestimate when the keg is full and ready to swap.

A hop sock sounds like the way to go for sure.. just make sure you sanitize the bag itself

Yep on the daisy chain - sounds like you have the idea. The only word of caution there, is that your liquid will be touching your gas posts in 2/3 of your kegs. That means that if you ever have lower pressure in your gas line/regulator than in your keg, you will blow beer back into your gas system. So you need to be careful about that. As long as your conscious of it, it shouldn't be an issue.