Apple wine on skins

[WVMJ]

Yopper had an interesting idea in her beginners cidermaking sticky that I have been thinking of trying. That is fermenting on the apple skins after they have been crushed but before pressing like in a red wine. What is your procedure for doing this? Add KM while crushing to knock down the wild bugs, 12 hours later add in pectinases, then later add in your yeast and let ferment a few days? One thing the craft cidermakers say is that you can't get anything from the skins like tannins, but a lot of those guys dont add pectinases trying to be "natural" with no additives. I keep thinking that the modern pectinases with all their different mixes of many different enzymes, even a custom mix from like cidersupply.com, might actually break down some of the skin and release a little more tannins. Some of the crafter guys say though that you should press the pulp immediately or that the tannins in the flesh can be bound by something on the skin while others think a few hours of maceration gives a better result. It may all be in the kinds of apples they are pressing and how much tannins are in their bittersharps and bittersweets.

Also, do you do your adjustments like sugar additions after pressing?

Thanks, WVMJ

 

[Yooper]

That's pretty much how I do it.

First, I started making apple wine and cider many years before I had a press, so I started doing it out of necessity and not because I thought it was a great idea.

I would wash and freeze the apples, and then let them thaw in big sanitized mesh bags in the fermenter, and add a wee bit of water and campden and smoosh them up with a sanitized mash paddle. This worked especially well with crabapples, and I didn't peel or core them. After about 5 days of fermenting, I'd press by squeezing the heck out of the bag.

I feel that fermenting on the fruit really did make a big difference in the body, flavor, and depth of the cider and wine.

Now that I have a press, I will put the bags of pulp/skins in the primary after pressing and ferment that way, and still remove the bags of pulp at about day 5, and press that bag again to get the juice out.

I did the campden right away, pectic enzyme at 12 hours (or so), and yeast at 24 hours. After fermentation got well under way, and I removed the fruit, I would check and adjust SG and maybe add some yeast nutrient if I had sugar additions. For wine, sometimes I would even add a bit more powdered tannin.

I use a weird mix of local windfall and yard apples- but one of the things I find gives the best flavor is our dolgo crabapples so I try to put that into the mix. The description says it can be up to 18 brix at maturity, but we've never once had that- much less! It has a very strong malic acid bite and is very tart. It's awesome in cider.

 

[HawleyFarms]

You know my wife asked me the last time I pressed this year why I didn't throw the press bag right into the primary with the cider. I guess I just never thought of it to be honest.

We have been using a blend of Macoun, Gala, Crispin and Cortland to get a composition of 50% sweet, 25% sharp and 25% bittersweet/sharp that reads around 1.06

We've tried both ale and wine yeasts now. I was hoping to try a saison before the end of the season but ran out of time. Instead I'm going to try a maple cyser saison.

Definitely going to try a few batches with the pulp next year both before and after pressing. Anyone tried just running the apples through a grinder and directly into a primary pail?

 

[WVMJ]

I have ordered a few dolgo trees to plant this year, hoping to mix them with some sweeter apples to balance out the acid levels. Do you think that adding the pressings back in increases the tannin levels vs just fermenting the juice? I would also think that doing the pulp fermentation might even bring some tannins out of the seeds? WVMJ

 

[Yooper]

I have ordered a few dolgo trees to plant this year, hoping to mix them with some sweeter apples to balance out the acid levels. Do you think that adding the pressings back in increases the tannin levels vs just fermenting the juice? I would also think that doing the pulp fermentation might even bring some tannins out of the seeds? WVMJ

I think so, and I think it's got a richer flavor and some more body as well.

I always made wine that way, and all sorts of wine, so for cider I really didn't give it much thought at first. Since I didn't have a press, it was just what I did. It turned out so well that I kept doing it. Sometimes I ferment the pressed juice since I make a bit of cider for fresh drinking for the grandkids and that is good but it seems that the juice fermented a bit on the pulp has a deeper flavor.

 

[Winesandsuch]

You know my wife asked me the last time I pressed this year why I didn't throw the press bag right into the primary with the cider. I guess I just never thought of it to be honest.

We have been using a blend of Macoun, Gala, Crispin and Cortland to get a composition of 50% sweet, 25% sharp and 25% bittersweet/sharp that reads around 1.06

We've tried both ale and wine yeasts now. I was hoping to try a saison before the end of the season but ran out of time. Instead I'm going to try a maple cyser saison.

Definitely going to try a few batches with the pulp next year both before and after pressing. Anyone tried just running the apples through a grinder and directly into a primary pail?

Yes I have, worked well. I described it as a apple nectar wine, my only sweetener was honey. I back sweetened it with a honey syrup I infused with cinnamon. I got it carbonated too with a ginger bug or ginger beer starter.

 

[Winesandsuch]

You know my wife asked me the last time I pressed this year why I didn't throw the press bag right into the primary with the cider. I guess I just never thought of it to be honest.

We have been using a blend of Macoun, Gala, Crispin and Cortland to get a composition of 50% sweet, 25% sharp and 25% bittersweet/sharp that reads around 1.06

We've tried both ale and wine yeasts now. I was hoping to try a saison before the end of the season but ran out of time. Instead I'm going to try a maple cyser saison.

Definitely going to try a few batches with the pulp next year both before and after pressing. Anyone tried just running the apples through a grinder and directly into a primary pail?

I did. I made an wild apple and local honey wine, I did the primary ferment in a pail with C-1118 sparking wine yeast. I bottle condition them in addition with some ginger bug I had lying around.