Apartment brewing

[DefinitelyJon]

So I'll be moving into an apartment soon and still want to be able to brew. I can't use propane like I've been since it's not allowed on the porch and no 220v outlets. Right now I have 2 keggles, a ten gallon kettle, pump, and plate chiller. I was looking at the grainfather but was curious how it gets to a full boil with just the standard plug. I could convert one keg or the kettle to electric but would still have to be 110v. Would it make more sense to go with something like the grainfather or try to build something with what i already have? Any input or suggestions would be awesome

 

[Gibberoni]

I currently live in an apartment, they also said that we could not have propane outside. I told them I was a home brewer, and I had a propane burner and used it to heat water, not oil. After showing them the equipment and a short how-to, they said it was fine. No oil to catch fire, and the burner can be turned off immediately if something should happen. But they said if the place burned down, insurance would NOT cover me.

 

[dmcman73]

You could go BIAB route and use two 110 heating elements to heat/boil.

 

[DefinitelyJon]

I may ask them about brewing but I assume since there's no grills allowed a burner would be the same. I do biab now I was thinking about putting two elements in

 

[wzd]

did you check the stove plug? Kind of a pain probably, but it would be 220. A dryer is also likely to be 220!

 

[Minky]

Check out the Grainfather. It's 110v.

 

[Yesfan]

did you check the stove plug? Kind of a pain probably, but it would be 220. A dryer is also likely to be 220!

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Maybe he could use one of these on the dryer or stove outlet. Chances are, you won't be running both at the same time and you wouldn't have to keep unplugging/plugging between the two.

 

[MeanLowerLow]

Check out the Grainfather. It's 110v.

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[IslandLizard]

+1 on the Dryer or Stove receptacles. Very easy to repurpose temporarily for brewing.

You can pull 240V from two 120V receptacles that are on opposite sides in the main panel. Most (modern) kitchen counter receptacles are wired on 2 separate circuits with 20A each (per NEC). Now apartments may/will vary.

Or use 2 120V 2000W elements or heat sticks.

[Added] Also consider induction with an IC3500, 240V 3500W. You do need a kettle that can handle induction. Some of us brew 10 gallons with those.

 

[IslandLizard]

Check out the Grainfather. It's 110v.

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Do you guys own one?
If so, let us know why you like it so much. Try to persuade the OP.

 

[DefinitelyJon]

Never even thought about the stove that is a great idea. I have the money for the grainfather I'm just debating on whether or not it's worth it. I don't mind only doin 5 gal batches since that's mainly what I did before. I just figure since I have most of the equipment maybe it'd be cheaper and better to build something with it

 

[Zepth]

I do 10g electric with a panel designed to plug into the stove outlet. I'm usually too busy with brewing to do anything stove related at the time anyways. It's a bit of a bother to get to, but worth it. If you're happy with 5g batches I'm sure a single 120v circuit could handle it.

I also recommend doing the boil outside if possible. The amount of steam made indoors cannot be handled easily, and I doubt they'd have high enough capacity vents to keep up. My condo policy is that I may not have "Barbecues, hibachis, or similar devices" on the balcony. I could argue that a kettle is dissimilar from those. I have yet to be called out on it.

 

[Knkbrand]

I own the grainfather, and i love it. It comes to a boil just fine. It takes about 10 mins to go from mash temp to mash out, then another 20-30 mins to get to a boil. I love being able to control mash temps so easy, and the one vessel system cleans up pretty fast. I have done 4 batches so far and am not looking back. Do some looking on youtube, there are a lot of videos that show the boil of the grainfather. My only complaint is not being able to do small batches, however the is a fix for that coming soon. It is already available in AUS, just not in the us yet.

 

[actech]

I have Grainfather. Only done 3 batches. My first all grain. Hit the #s on each recipe. Just sampled the first warm/flat on way to keg, seemed pretty good. Was extract before so.... my knowledge is limited on how its doing.

 

[Minky]

Do you guys own one?
If so, let us know why you like it so much. Try to persuade the OP.

I don't own one, but I'm seriously thinking about buying one. Check out this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=550870

 

[dmcman73]

The Grainfather is a an excellent option for Apartments. Compact all in one unit (easily stores away), 110 voltage, you won't have a ton of equipment all over the place since it's all built in and comes with a CFC...win win. I've read a lot of reviews about it and they have been all positive. There were some cons (every product has some cons) such as the pump being proprietary and depending on where you live, since it's 110, the time to boil can take a while....again, depending on where you live and elevation.

 

[TexasWine]

It's official. I hate the mobile app. Crashed and lost my wonderful response.

Short version. I'd recommend two BrewHardware.com Hot Rods with 1500 watt elements run on two separate 15 amp circuits. GFCI protection for a 240v outlet will cost you as much as a second Hot Rod. I can heat at 3°F per minute on my 2x1500 watt system, so don't let anyone tell you it'd be too slow with that type of set up.

Don't get the Grainfather. Overpriced. You can get an off the shelf electric system with the same functionality as the Grainfather, but for over $300 cheaper , at Brau Supply. And with the Brau Supply system you get a bigger kettle, almost double the wattage, and it's completely serviceable by you should something break.

My 2¢. Hope it helps.

 

[Knkbrand]

It's official. I hate the mobile app. Crashed and lost my wonderful response.



Don't get the Grainfather. Overpriced. You can get an off the shelf electric system with the same functionality as the Grainfather, but for over $300 cheaper , at Brau Supply. And with the Brau Supply system you get a bigger kettle, almost double the wattage, and it's completely serviceable by you should something break.

My 2¢. Hope it helps.

with a good counter flow wort chiller (included in the grainfather), the price is $130 less than the grainfather, IMO the grainfather is more aesthetically pleasing. With the SS mesh plates there is no need for the nylon bag, so while the Brau supply rig is cheaper, I wouldn't say the Grainfather is "overpriced"

 

[TexasWine]

with a good counter flow wort chiller (included in the grainfather), the price is $130 less than the grainfather, IMO the grainfather is more aesthetically pleasing. With the SS mesh plates there is no need for the nylon bag, so while the Brau supply rig is cheaper, I wouldn't say the Grainfather is "overpriced"

Ah yes! The chiller is the part I forgot when I re-typed my post. Thanks for mentioning it.

You can get a great used plate chiller for $50. So I'd call it $280 cheaper and still say the Grainfather is overpriced. But again, just my opinion. Lots of folks are happy with the Grainfather.

Aesthetics aren't that important to me (though I'd say the Brau rig is just as appealing, and I don't leave my brew rig laying around the house as decoration any way). Cheaper price, more wattage, serviceability are.

 

[DefinitelyJon]

Just checked out the brau systems and they are much cheaper to go that route for the same features. The grainfather is pretty cool for how simple and portable it is and I hear customer service is pretty good with em. So I guess it's more if I want the simplicity of it or save some money and go with something like brau supply

 

[dyqik]

Given that the OP has a 10 gallon kettle, pump and a plate chiller, I'd say add a hot rod or two or install a couple of 1500W elements in the 10g kettle, and buy a BIAB bag for it, and build a PID controller with manual mode for one element (other element can be on a simple on/off switch on a separate circuit). 5 gallon recirculating BIAB batches are now easy.

Selling the keggles would probably pay for it all.

 

[Minky]

It's official. I hate the mobile app. Crashed and lost my wonderful response.

Short version. I'd recommend two BrewHardware.com Hot Rods with 1500 watt elements run on two separate 15 amp circuits. GFCI protection for a 240v outlet will cost you as much as a second Hot Rod. I can heat at 3°F per minute on my 2x1500 watt system, so don't let anyone tell you it'd be too slow with that type of set up.

Don't get the Grainfather. Overpriced. You can get an off the shelf electric system with the same functionality as the Grainfather, but for over $300 cheaper , at Brau Supply. And with the Brau Supply system you get a bigger kettle, almost double the wattage, and it's completely serviceable by you should something break.

My 2¢. Hope it helps.

I have considered other electric systems and I guess I'm just leery of the exposed heating elements after seeing photos of elements with scorched wort, etc. Also, just having the elements in the way seems like it would be a pain. Maybe my concerns are unfounded, but the Grainfather seems like a nice, clean way to brew.

 

[cod3ck]

I have considered other electric systems and I guess I'm just leery of the exposed heating elements after seeing photos of elements with scorched wort, etc. Also, just having the elements in the way seems like it would be a pain. Maybe my concerns are unfounded, but the Grainfather seems like a nice, clean way to brew.

Before you make a move, I highly recommend reading up on heating elements at theelectricbrewery.com. As long as you go ULWD elements and maybe stick with BIAB, I'd have to agree with TexasWine...

But it depends, would you rather build or buy? That's the real question. Either will work!

 

[TexasWine]

I have considered other electric systems and I guess I'm just leery of the exposed heating elements after seeing photos of elements with scorched wort, etc. Also, just having the elements in the way seems like it would be a pain. Maybe my concerns are unfounded, but the Grainfather seems like a nice, clean way to brew.

To address your concerns, most times you see scorched wort on an element because there was a confluence of issues. A high watt density element and user error are usually the two culprits.

And concerning the elements being in the way, they're not in the way of anything because there's nothing for them to be in the way of. They just happily sit there, very low in the kettle, doing what they do. And they're easy peasy to clean.

I agree, the Grainfather is a nice, clean way to brew. Nothing wrong with it at all. People who own them love them. But as mentioned, it's expensive compared to other systems with the same functionality and has particular drawbacks you must be OK with.

 

[LarMoeCur]

I'm no physicist but the bottom of a direct fired kettle has to be about the same temperature if not hotter than a heating element properly set.

Rough numbers here. 3,412 Btu in 1 kWh, so a 4,500-watt element will produce a little more than 15,000 BTU per hour. Most propane burners are running in the 60,000 BTU range there will be some loss of heat. Surface area is the only thing I can't account for but it seem to me that scorching would be more likely with direct fire.

Like I said not a trained rocket scientist just spit balling numbers. Someone with a 15# brain correct me if I'm wrong.

"Every time I hear that Weasel tune, something POPS inside of me!" -Curly

 

[dmcman73]

I'm no physicist but the bottom of a direct fired kettle has to be about the same temperature if not hotter than a heating element properly set.

Rough numbers here. 3,412 Btu in 1 kWh, so a 4,500-watt element will produce a little more than 15,000 BTU per hour. Most propane burners are running in the 60,000 BTU range there will be some loss of heat. Surface area is the only thing I can't account for but it seem to me that scorching would be more likely with direct fire.

Like I said not a trained rocket scientist just spit balling numbers. Someone with a 15# brain correct me if I'm wrong.

"Every time I hear that Weasel tune, something POPS inside of me!" -Curly

Not the same. With the heating element submerged, you're heating the liquid directly, very little energy loss so you don't need high BTU's. With a propane / gas burner, you have to heat the pot first before being able to start heating the contents of the pot...then you need to maintain the temperature of the pot to keep the liquid boiling since the pot acts like a big heat sink, wastes a lot of energy so more BTU's are needed.

People also love induction burners because they actually turn the pot itself into a heating element heating the contents directly with very little energy loss.

 

[m00ps]

I got a standard 120v Brew Boss electric BIAB system and it works great indoors

 

[LarMoeCur]

Not the same. With the heating element submerged, you're heating the liquid directly, very little energy loss so you don't need high BTU's. With a propane / gas burner, you have to heat the pot first before being able to start heating the contents of the pot...then you need to maintain the temperature of the pot to keep the liquid boiling since the pot acts like a big heat sink, wastes a lot of energy so more BTU's are needed.

People also love induction burners because they actually turn the pot itself into a heating element heating the contents directly with very little energy loss.

They are the same (heating wort is heating wort). Both are hot metal in direct contact with wort. One is just more efficient than the other. Even if a burner is only 50% efficient it's still greatly exceeding the output of an electric element. Surface area is the only variable not accounted for well maybe heating material but now we are talking metallurgy and physics. Either way, I'm way out of my league. I know enough to be dangerous and that's about it. But I do think we reading for the same page and book just looking at it from a different angle.

 

[treacheroustexan]

I have the grainfather in my small apartment. Heres a video of one of my brewdays on it. All of the persuasion you need. Best investment ever.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HJCHxGkEzE[/ame]

 

[dyqik]

They are the same (heating wort is heating wort). Both are hot metal in direct contact with wort. One is just more efficient than the other. Even if a burner is only 50% efficient it's still greatly exceeding the output of an electric element. Surface area is the only variable not accounted for well maybe heating material but now we are talking metallurgy and physics. Either way, I'm way out of my league. I know enough to be dangerous and that's about it. But I do think we reading for the same page and book just looking at it from a different angle.

Surface area is critical for scorching. For a given boil intensity (i.e. power transferred to the wort), the temperature of the heated surface will be higher in the set up with the smaller surface area (total power is proportional to surface area times temperature difference for conductive heat transfer, so for fixed power, temperature difference goes as 1/surface area). This is why an ULWD element with 3 times the area of a HWD element is much less likely to scorch, and why a directly heated base of pot which has even more surface area is less likely still to scorch the wort.

However, working against that somewhat in the comparison of ULWD submerged elements vs direct heating of the pot is that a submerged element may set up stronger convection currents vs. a uniformly heated pot, which will help prevent scorching by moving wort past the element faster.