Anyone want to post their favorite Oktoberfest/Marzen recipe?

[BlitzkrausenNate]

I've done an oktoberfest (Kinda late this year, oh well) the last three years for the fall. My favorite overall was:

4lbs Pils malt
4lbs Munich
4lbs Vienna
.5 Lb Melanoidin
bittered with Hallertauer
2L starter of 2206 Bavarian Lager

This year I want to use the sack of Vienna I have on hand with:
5lbs Vienna
3Lbs Bohemian floor malted Pils
3lbs Munich
.33lb Melanodin
Bittered with German Saphir hops
2L starter of 2206 Bavarian Lager

Any have any ideas on getting that rich toasty, biscuity, bready goodness? I have Victory and Britsh medium crystal but that's pushing the style even more than I am already. thanks in advance.

 

[Roundhouse]

Mine is a Hochkurz double decoction with each decoction boiling for 20 minutes. I use a grain bill of 75% Vienna and 25% 10° Munich.

 

[BlitzkrausenNate]

Thats interesting, I was just reading about Hochkurz mashing yesterday for the first time. I've only done single infusion mashing thus far. Are your grains undermodified?/German? Have you noticed an increase in head retention or otherwise in your Hockkurz mashed beers? I was reading about the "Kolbach index" yesterday and this came into play. I dont know if I will go through the trouble of doing a boil of the decoction, but the different rest temps are appealing if using undermodified malt.

 

[Roundhouse]

I dough in at 131-133 degrees and rest it there for 20 minutes before pulling the first decoction. I'm not sure about an increase in head retention from this method but it's definitely no worse. I think my carbonation method has a lot to do with it since I let this beer naturally carbonate as opposed to forced. I can tell a difference in carbonation quality between those methods. My two temp rests that are hit by adding decoction back are at 144 and 158. Each rest is 30 minutes. Mashout is 15 minutes at 168 before sparge at 168.

The neat thing about decoctions is that you get very little hot break in the kettle compared to an infusion mash. It's a much cleaner wort. Fermentation is also a little more vigorous. These of course are benefits in addition to the normal slight darkening, added flavors, and added body that you get from a decoction mash.

If you've never tried a decoction, a good place to start is with a single decoction. They are simple. Do your normal infusion rest at whatever temp you choose. After 45 minutes pull 1/3 of your mash and bring it to a boil. Boil it anywhere from 10-30 minutes and then slowly add a quantity back in until you hit mashout temp. Hold this temp for 10 minutes then recirculate and sparge. It's a good place to start and adds a minimal amount of time to your day. It's also very simple so don't be scared to try it. Experimentation is the fun part of home brewing.

 

[BlitzkrausenNate]

Awesome, I have thought about doing a protein rest in the lower range (130-133) as you suggested, I just have wondered if this has any tangible benefit if using american malts. From what I have read, a protein rest does not help. Perhaps this is why you are getting clearer wort?

I like the idea of getting less hot/cold break. I have a Blickman hop rocket that has worked well to filter break in the past but this doesn't get pulled out much, especially in styles like this. I have a crude pickup tube in my converted keggle and counterflow plate chiller and a good deal of the hot/cold break goes to the fermentor. Whirlfloc has helped in this regard.

So did I hear you correctly that you boil part of the mash, grains and all? Wouldn't this leach tannins into the end product? Pardon if I heard wrong.

The carmelization of the wort does sound very good. I have accidentally boiled the lautered mash when sparging into the brew kettle because my sparging was so slown, but I didn't recirculate it back into the mash as you suggest. I need to read up and see if the juice is worth the squeeze.

Great input Roundhouse

 

[Roundhouse]

There are two criteria that must be met to extract tannins. Meeting only one of these won't do it. You need to be above 170° and the ph need to be at 6 or higher. Assuming you did everything correctly, your mash ph should be around 5.2 to 5.5. Boil away. You aren't meeting one of the criteria so tannins aren't a concern. Incidentally since all of my brewing water is treated to a ph of 5.5, my sparge never goes into the tannin extraction range either. I could theoretically sparge until the hydrometer read 1.000 and I still wouldn't have to worry about tannins. You could even squeeze the grains dry and not worry about it. I believe that people spend far too much time worrying about tannins when they aren't even an issue of consideration if your processes are good.

 

[Roundhouse]

I had to go back and edit post #4. I got the second pull of a Hochkurz decoction confused with the single pull so the amount is very different. You might be able to get away with 1 qt thick mash per lb of grain though.

 

[BlitzkrausenNate]

Why do you use a Thick mash? I usually use a 1.25/1.33 Qt/Lb. The article below says to use a thin mash (1.75/2.25 Qt/Lb) when Hochkurz mashing:
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Infusion_Mashing

It also doesn't make sense to me to pull off 1/3rd of the mash and boil it as this would seem to denature all enzymes required for the conversion including alpha/beta amylase.

It would seem better to boil portions of the mash after all rests have occurred.

The cart may be getting ahead of the horse if american malts are being used as mentioned earlier.

Happy brewing

 

[Roundhouse]

I do use a thin mash on a Hochkurz. Generally around 1.75/1. I use a thicker on a single decoction though since it's what I use with a standard infusion mash. Around 1.25/1. When pulling a decoction you want the pull itself to be thick. You want mostly grains rather than liquid.

A protein rest at 121-122 is common on lower modified malts on a decoction to produce more amino acids which serve as yeast nutrients. Higher modified malts have plenty of these proteins so a rest here is not needed. On well modified malts a rest in the 131-133 range should help the proteins responsible for body and head retention. It's amazing what a few degrees difference can do.

 

[Roundhouse]

I checked the gravity of my O-fest last night. After 3 weeks it's at 1.022 and still falling. I like my lagers to ferment out over about a month at 48°. Next week I'll check it again. It may be ready to crash down to 34 at that point where it'll sit for 2 weeks. It already tastes incredible! This recipe is going to be a winner.