Anyone making "BRUT" IPA's??

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

Morrey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Messages
3,529
Reaction score
1,378
Location
Coastal, SC
A microbiologist at a yeast company shared the latest trend may be shifting from the NE IPA craze to the drier BRUT IPA.

A quick look online shows glucoamalyse is added to help break down the long chain sugars down to available food for yeast allowing the FG to get way down to a target of 1.002 or similar.

Seems the low FG of the BRUT IPA allows hops to pop while subduing malts and other flavors. Does anyone have experience with this concept such as appropriate yeast..etc? Thanks!
 

radwizard

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2015
Messages
725
Reaction score
325
Head over to the All Grain Section. There is a thread going about Brut on the first page.
 

GPP33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
1,008
Reaction score
410
Location
Longmont
Sounds like an incredibly unbalanced beer. I’ll go check out the other thread to hopefully learn more.
 
OP
Morrey

Morrey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Messages
3,529
Reaction score
1,378
Location
Coastal, SC
Sounds like an incredibly unbalanced beer. I’ll go check out the other thread to hopefully learn more.
I "stumbled" across a Brut IPA today at a micro brewery. It was quite dry but I totally enjoyed it. Wife likes a thicker mouthfeel from a DIPA or a NE IPA, but this Brut was seriously enjoyable. I had my doubts too....surprised me.
 

Murphys_Law

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2015
Messages
1,378
Reaction score
1,066
Location
Denver area
I "stumbled" across a Brut IPA today at a micro brewery. It was quite dry but I totally enjoyed it. Wife likes a thicker mouthfeel from a DIPA or a NE IPA, but this Brut was seriously enjoyable. I had my doubts too....surprised me.
Did you like it enough to brew one yourself?
 
OP
Morrey

Morrey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Messages
3,529
Reaction score
1,378
Location
Coastal, SC
Did you like it enough to brew one yourself?
Absolutely, yes. The Brut IPA wasn't crazy over hopped, yet the perception of hops was very dominate in a clean and non-bitter sort of way. The body was not cloying so I could enjoy more than one w/o getting bogged down from being too heavy.

Last fall I did a 12G batch of fresh pressed apple cider with English Cider yeast which took the cider to 1.000. I actually kind of liked that very thin and dry profile which seemed clean and non assuming. I retarded the yeast and brought the SG up slightly by adding some brown sugar (brought to 1.007) and dry hopped with Nelson Sauvin. Terrific!

I can see my Brut with a standard 5% ABV and 30 IBU not to overpower the delicate nuances. Yes, this is on my radar next up after a Gose next weekend.
 

day_trippr

"This Space For Rent"
Joined
May 31, 2011
Messages
37,666
Reaction score
20,567
Location
Stow, MA
I've been totally intrigued since the first mention of this style on HBT.
I need to find a prototypical sample, but otherwise it's definitely on my short list of new things to try...

Cheers! :mug:
 
OP
Morrey

Morrey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Messages
3,529
Reaction score
1,378
Location
Coastal, SC
In my opinion, this 1.002 FG beer is well worth the time to research and to brew. It is crisp, clean and flavorful, so it hits the right notes for my tastes.

In contrast, my wife preferred the NE IPA we brew as she likes the mouthfeel and residual sugars our beer has at 1.012.

But if you enjoy Brut champagne, you should be in business.
 

GPP33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
1,008
Reaction score
410
Location
Longmont
Ugh... tired of new trends........
Tell me about it. Why can’t we just have one style of beer that everone drinks. Maybe something very pale and with little flavor so everyone can “tolerate” it. No one should really enjoy beer. We shall call it the king of beers!

On a serious note, I think people are interested in new styles because they like them, not because it’s the new trend. Some catch on and make it a trend but with so many choices out there that’s a pretty silly thing to do.

So with sub 1.000 FGs are post fermentation infections a non issue? Nothing for any unwanted grubs to eat right?
 

dmtaylor

Lord Idiot the Lazy
HBT Supporter
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
4,935
Reaction score
3,473
Location
Two Rivers, WI
Tell me about it. Why can’t we just have one style of beer that everone drinks. Maybe something very pale and with little flavor so everyone can “tolerate” it. No one should really enjoy beer. We shall call it the king of beers!

On a serious note, I think people are interested in new styles because they like them, not because it’s the new trend. Some catch on and make it a trend but with so many choices out there that’s a pretty silly thing to do.
Why can't we just have a shitload of styles that are all enjoyable, with new trends being confined only to malty styles? That'd be great.
 

GPP33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
1,008
Reaction score
410
Location
Longmont
Why can't we just have a poopyload of styles that are all enjoyable, with new trends being confined only to malty styles? That'd be great.
Since all the new styles seem to play off of the IPA name, which is something I wish they wouldn’t do, you should do a no hop IPA. Give it a catchy name with “IPA” in it and you’ll be famous. It won’t matter if there’s no hop flavor or aroma.
 
OP
Morrey

Morrey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Messages
3,529
Reaction score
1,378
Location
Coastal, SC
Just had a local Brut Pale, and it was excellent. I’m looking forward to trying my hand at one at home!
Me too as I'm preparing my thoughts and ingredients for the Brut IPA brew at home.

The brewery I sourced as having one called theirs "Brut Hop Champagne". Seriously, it was off the chain good.

I know what y'all mean about so many styles coming and going - trending and fading. Of course trends offer companies like White Labs the opportunity to develop and sell new strains of yeasts and cash in on new products. There is "gold" in them thar' trends.
 
OP
Morrey

Morrey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Messages
3,529
Reaction score
1,378
Location
Coastal, SC
Since all the new styles seem to play off of the IPA name, which is something I wish they wouldn’t do, you should do a no hop IPA. Give it a catchy name with “IPA” in it and you’ll be famous. It won’t matter if there’s no hop flavor or aroma.
I really think you have a darn good point regarding this beer called an IPA. I don't see much IPA in it actually...but I loved the beer.

With only 25 - 30 IBU, the IPA profile doesn't reach out and grab me. I realize we have gotten away from IBU's and embraced the term hop perception by using flameout, whirlpool and dry hop additions to control bitterness, but I still cling to the ideal that an IPA needs to have more than a minimal amount of hops. I have had Pilsners, Bitters and Pale Ales with more IBU influence than this. So yes I agree they have taken the term IPA as a marketing tool to align this beer with trendy styles for name recognition.

With that said, I liked the term "Brut Hop Champagne". No matter what they or we call it....it is delicious. Maybe the name needs to be discussed as I may call mine..."The Champagne of Beers" Opps...Miller may bust me.
 

cactusgarrett

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
2,161
Reaction score
772
Location
Madison, WI
The problem is that the masses have a hard time discerning an IPA from a non-IPA when the hop flavor and aroma are slapping them in the face, as the Brut IPA does. Permit me a moment of existentialism: what makes an IPA an IPA - perception-wise? Would you call a beer an IPA if it had bitterness and no hop aroma/flavor? Vice versa (as is with the NEIPA or the Brut IPA)? More than ever brewers are starting to blur style lines, and it'd be futile to create a new style to match every unique style out there. I just had one that was considered a NEIPA but was centered more on being like pinot grigio wine.

Another local joint (to me) that does one (very well!) calls their Brut IPA "Bier Brut/Bier de Champagne", but the champagne part incorrectly (for this style) references the whole process of inverted freezing, yeast plug removal, etc.
 
Last edited:

couchsending

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
2,987
Reaction score
2,014
Another local joint (to me) that does one (very well!) calls their Brut IPA "Bier Brut/Bier de Champagne", but the champagne part incorrectly (for this style) references the whole process of inverted freezing, yeast plug removal, etc.
They’re clearly not that bright. That is a completely different style/beer than Brut IPA.
 

dmtaylor

Lord Idiot the Lazy
HBT Supporter
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
4,935
Reaction score
3,473
Location
Two Rivers, WI
If every single beer is on some part of the mega-broad IPA spectrum, then I love IPA.

To me an IPA is a Pale Ale brewed to a higher strength of say >5.5% ABV with big hop bitterness, big hop flavor, and big hop aroma.

Anything too dark, or a lager, or too low in ABV, or less than big hop character, is NOT an IPA. For the love of all beers that are holy, get creative and name it something else for once.
 

couchsending

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
2,987
Reaction score
2,014
I have no problems calling this an IPA. Just because traditionally IPAs were bitter and this isn’t doesn’t make it a different beer. You use the same amount of hops just at different stages of the process.

Yes it’s classified as IPA in order to sell it better but it’s a hop focused beer made with a clean yeast profile. Dry, Chico, 2 Row, no crystal..sounds just like a modern west coast IPA with low bitterness.
 
OP
Morrey

Morrey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Messages
3,529
Reaction score
1,378
Location
Coastal, SC
Mostly Pils or 2 row malts....got it. How about a pound of white wheat in the grain bill to give us a bit of mouthfeel? Thinking out loud....9 pounds 2 row and 1 pound white wheat in a 5.5G batch should bring it to about 1.050 OG. That wheat addition will keep it from dropping crystal clear, but I'd be ok with that.
 

couchsending

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
2,987
Reaction score
2,014
If you want better mouthfeel in a dry highly carbonated beer I would suggest naturally carbonating it versus force carbing. To me it makes a noticeable difference. I’m thinking of bottle conditioning some in champagne bottles for dramatic effect.

If you’re going to force carbonate and want to add something for mouthfeel Rye would be what I would use. It’s higher in beta glucans than Wheat.
 

GPP33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
1,008
Reaction score
410
Location
Longmont
If every single beer is on some part of the mega-broad IPA spectrum, then I love IPA.

To me an IPA is a Pale Ale brewed to a higher strength of say >5.5% ABV with big hop bitterness, big hop flavor, and big hop aroma.

Anything too dark, or a lager, or too low in ABV, or less than big hop character, is NOT an IPA. For the love of all beers that are holy, get creative and name it something else for once.
Exactly. If it’s different then call it something different. I don’t particularly enjoy NEIPAs but I love west coast style IPAs. IMO lumping them together is doing both styles a disservice. A style simply defines what you’re going to get. It’s nothing more and nothing less. Of course it is just a name and the only time it really bothers me is when I order an “IPA” and get something closer to a muddled mess that’s attempting to be a “NEIPA”.
 

dmtaylor

Lord Idiot the Lazy
HBT Supporter
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
4,935
Reaction score
3,473
Location
Two Rivers, WI
I don't even mind haze. I can't taste haze. I've tasted good NEIPAs. My point is more that not everything needs to be called "IPA" to sell............... OR DOES IT?!?!
 

stickyfinger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
2,250
Reaction score
592
Location
Hudson Valley
It seems that "IPA" should indicate to a majority of consumers what to expect when being presented with this style. An educated consumer would know to expect a substantial amount of hop flavor - not much else can be assumed from "IPA". Today, IPA says nothing about strength, bitterness or malt character. Now, you wouldn't really expect a malt-bomb, 12% beer to be called an IPA, of course, and there is style bleed when you stretch "too far" in one or more dimensions. Brut IPA fits right in perfectly in the IPA universe. It's an ultra-dry, usually sparkly beer with minimal malt character and substantial hop flavor.

I for one thoroughly enjoy the new styles that are constantly emerging and changing. The more diversity the better. Styles are just there to give a general idea about sort of what to expect from a particular beer ultimately. Judging takes that to the extreme, but it's still just a blurred set of guidelines for what to expect and what is considered within the realm of the style.
 
OP
Morrey

Morrey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Messages
3,529
Reaction score
1,378
Location
Coastal, SC
If you want better mouthfeel in a dry highly carbonated beer I would suggest naturally carbonating it versus force carbing. To me it makes a noticeable difference. I’m thinking of bottle conditioning some in champagne bottles for dramatic effect.

If you’re going to force carbonate and want to add something for mouthfeel Rye would be what I would use. It’s higher in beta glucans than Wheat.
Done deal. With the addition of my Uni Tanks last year, I don't think I have force carbed since. I like natural carbing in the tanks by shutting the BO valve when close to FG. Carbonation seems smoother with no bite.

Per your suggestion to use rye: I brewed a very low ABV beer last year at 2.8% by using only wheat and rye, then dry hopped with Nelson Sauvin. Naturally carbed in the Uni tank and was a HUGE hit. You'd think the mouthfeel would be non-existent, but it was surprisingly nice.
 

MT's AZ Ale Haus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2018
Messages
260
Reaction score
113
I have a couple general FYI questions.

1. Do you add your Amylase in the mash side or the ferm side?

2. Has anyone used an organic white grape juice in their batch?
 

Calder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
8,545
Reaction score
1,035
Location
Ohio
This is not new to me and I've been making these for years. I call them IPAs.

I just like my IPAs to finish dry. I regularly take them down to 1.002/1.004. I think I've done something wrong if it comes in around 1.008. Usually around 6% (although at that low an FG, it usually creeps up a little more), and around 60 IBUs. I love them.

I didn't know I'd been secretly making a new style for the past 5+ years. I just like them dry. I find many (not all by any means) Commercial IPAs to be cloyingly sweet.

I have a couple general FYI questions.

1. Do you add your Amylase in the mash side or the ferm side?
2. Has anyone used an organic white grape juice in their batch?
1 - Just mash low and long, and the wort will be very fermentable. No need for any amylase.
2 - I've added grape juice before to some beers, usually Belgians. I find it adds an excellent flavor, but for some reason, the few beers I have used it on have not held up well to storage; so drink them young.
 

cactusgarrett

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
2,161
Reaction score
772
Location
Madison, WI
But are you doing these IPAs with relatively lower IBU levels? One of the distinguishing characteristics is low IBU coupled with big hop flavor/aroma due to flameout/whirlpool additions. Regarding gravity, most people can't get down around 1.000 no matter what variables are adjusted. Enzyme is often needed.
 

snowtiger1987

Snowtiger
Joined
Oct 16, 2017
Messages
188
Reaction score
75
I just brewed one. OG 1.060. Mashed at 148 for 60 minutes. Added Amylo300 after 4 days of primary fermentation. I expect it to finish around .997 (8% ABV) Whirlpool hopped with Amarillo, Azacca, Centennial, and Loral. Will probably dry-hop with the same. Checking gravity tonight after 10 days in the primary.
 

dmtaylor

Lord Idiot the Lazy
HBT Supporter
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
4,935
Reaction score
3,473
Location
Two Rivers, WI
I'll bet an overnight mash plus US-05 (a very highly attenuative yeast) could get final gravity pretty close to 1.000, or 1.005 anyway, for those who care.... and without any amylase enzyme.
 

Hwk-I-St8

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
1,916
Reaction score
852
Location
The Hawkeye State
I brewed one that's just carbed up now. I used all pilsen malt with a pound of flaked wheat. I followed my typical hopping routine that I'd use for a NEIPA but dropped the quantities down figuring there wouldn't be the body to stand up to a pound of hops.
Final gravity was 1.002, carbed to 2.8 v

The result is crisp, clean with a surprising balance (more balanced than my NEIPAs). It has a nice citrus/stone fruit aroma and a clean lemon/citrus flavor. A very approachable beer that, I think, would have appeal both to craft beer novices and true beer nerds.

I'll definitely brew this one again. It's going to be hard to enjoy this batch since I'm doing weight watchers so I can only afford a few beers a week. I'll definitely enjoy a few while watching Iowa dismantle Penn State Saturday though.
 

MT's AZ Ale Haus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2018
Messages
260
Reaction score
113
The VAST majority of research I have done, indicates that an Amylase enzyme is required to get down to that dry 1.000 holy grail. That being said and I am not questioning wether or not TO use an Amylase enzyme, it's pretty clear that it is a key ingredient in Brut IPA's.
I am wanting to know, of those that have done Brut IPA's when did you introduce your Amylase and what effect did it have?
 

sonic7173

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
123
Reaction score
30
Location
Washington Terrace
The VAST majority of research I have done, indicates that an Amylase enzyme is required to get down to that dry 1.000 holy grail. That being said and I am not questioning wether or not TO use an Amylase enzyme, it's pretty clear that it is a key ingredient in Brut IPA's.
I am wanting to know, of those that have done Brut IPA's when did you introduce your Amylase and what effect did it have?
I added glucoamylase enzyme when I transferred to the fermenter and then pitched my yeast about 3 hrs later when I was down to temp. High krausen for 4 days. Finished at 0.997 after a week, then dry hopped. Came out fantastic. Didn't notice anything different from a normal US-05 fermentation other than being bone dry.
 

OG-wan Kenobi

Arcane Artisanal Ales
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
1,175
Reaction score
2,312
Location
Long Island
Northern Brewer has 20% off right now I just ordered the Brut IPA kit $31.99 shipped :yes: I got to try one of these for that price I never had a Brut IPA before :ban:

@dmtaylor I just did a pumpkin ale with S-05 mashed at 150 for 75 minutes I got 1.005 FG I was surprised, I rehydrated and did a starter on a stir plate
 

Hwk-I-St8

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
1,916
Reaction score
852
Location
The Hawkeye State
The VAST majority of research I have done, indicates that an Amylase enzyme is required to get down to that dry 1.000 holy grail. That being said and I am not questioning wether or not TO use an Amylase enzyme, it's pretty clear that it is a key ingredient in Brut IPA's.
I am wanting to know, of those that have done Brut IPA's when did you introduce your Amylase and what effect did it have?
I used amylo300. I mashed at 148 and, after 30 minutes I left the lid off and stirred to drop below 145 at which point I added half the amylo300 and gave it a 40 min rest. I batch sparge, so I drained the first runnings and added the 2nd half of the amylo 300. Performed my usual batch sparge, then let the full volume of wort rest for another 40 minutes.

Boiled, whirlpooled etc as usual and pitched a packet of nottingham. It finished at 1.002.
 

Shenanigans

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
1,097
Reaction score
249
Location
Germany but from Ireland
Northern Brewer has 20% off right now I just ordered the Brut IPA kit $31.99 shipped :yes: I got to try one of these for that price I never had a Brut IPA before :ban:

@dmtaylor I just did a pumpkin ale with S-05 mashed at 150 for 75 minutes I got 1.005 FG I was surprised, I rehydrated and did a starter on a stir plate
I have loads of yeast and hop options and there are already quite a few Brut IPA recipes available but I need to just decide on one.

How did the kit turn out? I like the idea of using two wine-like hops for this style.
I downloaded the PDF and have all the ingredients so was thinking of giving it a go. Will use Mangrove Jacks M44.

Or can someone recommend another really good recipe?
 

OG-wan Kenobi

Arcane Artisanal Ales
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
1,175
Reaction score
2,312
Location
Long Island
I have loads of yeast and hop options and there are already quite a few Brut IPA recipes available but I need to just decide on one.

How did the kit turn out? I like the idea of using two wine-like hops for this style.
I downloaded the PDF and have all the ingredients so was thinking of giving it a go. Will use Mangrove Jacks M44.

Or can someone recommend another really good recipe?

It was really good the hop selection worked out very well for the style it finished .995, first night it was on tap I missed work the next day
 

Shenanigans

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
1,097
Reaction score
249
Location
Germany but from Ireland
It was really good the hop selection worked out very well for the style it finished .995, first night it was on tap I missed work the next day
Thanks for the reply.
Sometimes you just have to make a sacrifice for the art of brewing. :D

There's more than 450 posts on the main Brut IPA thread with lots of advice but as this will be my first attempt I will stick to the process in the NB recipe PDF.
Half of the Ultraferm in the mash and the other half in the fermenter, if it was indeed Ultraferm that came with the kit?

I've also see some recipes with more hops in the dry hop than this one has in total but will resist the temptation to add more hops myself or could it do with some more dry hops?
 
Last edited:
Top