Anyone ever use a graphic design contest website for their logo?

[BVilleggiante]

So I just recently found out about these websites where you create a contest for, let's say as an example, a logo your looking to have built. Then, you post a reward and graphic designers create logo ideas for you and whoever you choose gets the reward you've offered. Has anyone ever used one of these? If so, which one. There are a lot out there and I'm trying to find out if there is one that is better than the others?

Cheers!

 

[stubbornman]

The logo company does good work and you get unlimited revisions until you're happy. Once you get signed up they have 4 or 5 artists pitch you their version of what you specified you wanted. Then you start narrowing them down.

Logo Design - $149

 

[BVilleggiante]

Thank you for the feedback. I'm going to have a look right now.

The logo company does good work and you get unlimited revisions until you're happy. Once you get signed up they have 4 or 5 artists pitch you their version of what you specified you wanted. Then you start narrowing them down.

Logo Design - $149

 

[FantasticBastard]

As a designer I am vehemently opposed to these types of crowd sourcing sites. You are asking 4 or 5 designers to work for free with the promise that one of them will be paid. Whether or not their design gets chosen they have put in the hours. Crowd sourcing is great for the client but it's really degrading and demeaning to the design industry as a whole.

Would you brew for free at the request of a stranger?

The better route is to hire a local freelance designer and pay them directly. Plus, you might be able to pay them in beer. Also, the finished product will most likely be much stronger since you will have met this person, maybe shown them the process, etc.

 

[daksin]

As a designer I am vehemently opposed to these types of crowd sourcing sites. You are asking 4 or 5 designers to work for free with the promise that one of them will be paid. Whether or not their design gets chosen they have put in the hours. Crowd sourcing is great for the client but it's really degrading and demeaning to the design industry as a whole.

I'm glad someone else feels as strongly about this as I do. It's a real dilution of the process and makes it harder for real freelancers to get work at a reasonable rate.

 

[nukinfuts29]

as a designer i am vehemently opposed to these types of crowd sourcing sites. You are asking 4 or 5 designers to work for free with the promise that one of them will be paid. Whether or not their design gets chosen they have put in the hours. Crowd sourcing is great for the client but it's really degrading and demeaning to the design industry as a whole.

Would you brew for free at the request of a stranger?

The better route is to hire a local freelance designer and pay them directly. Plus, you might be able to pay them in beer. Also, the finished product will most likely be much stronger since you will have met this person, maybe shown them the process, etc.

this!!

 

[stubbornman]

Those artists are not forced to submit their free work or use the "crowd sourcing sites" at all... They can go out, start a business or do whatever they want... I think those are more for young, new, student artists to earn money and get exposure from a much larger audience then they normally would.

And as far as the link I posted goes, the artists are employed by The Logo Company and not sourced from a contest.

 

[nukinfuts29]

Those artists are not forced to submit their free work or use the "crowd sourcing sites" at all... They can go out, start a business or do whatever they want... I think those are more for young, new, student artists to earn money and get exposure from a much larger audience then they normally would.

And as far as the link I posted goes, the artists are employed by The Logo Company and not sourced from a contest.

They are forced in a way, because it is market depriciation. Allow me to give three examples I have witnessed first hand:

Bail Bonds: Most states have a minimum bondsman can charge to do a bail. For example take MI. Anything $1,000 and up is 10%, anything $999 and below is $100 legal minimum, no limit. So that means any bond company can do a $800 bond for $100. Nobody ever used to do this anywhere in the country, because they didn't have too. One company would say $150, the other would say yea ok $125 and boom they win.

Along comes my former boss, who at the time (~18-19 yrs ago) thought he was a genius. He opened up in 17 states at the same time, and did bail for the absolute lowest possible price when the market was in a great place, and nobody else was doing this. He ruined bail bonds and regrets it every day of his life. Companies now fight over crap bail for minimum prices, and a lot of times break the law. He built the biggest bail companies in the country, and watched the market take an unrecoverable hit. Places like Vegas still do great, but in most places those companies are hurting big time. All because someone was willing to do the same work for an insanely low amount of money.

Let's look at web design. Before Craigslist hit it's major boom, I made $65 an hour with an up front 10 hour minimum to do web design. I was one of the cheaper ones at the time, and I made a killing. Then CL exploded, CMS became widely available, and college/highschool students began doing entire websites for $200. Business's, musicians, they all ate that up. These days a qualified designer has to fight $50 bids for what used to be $1000 of work. It's insane.

Computer Repair, same thing.

So yea they are not forced too, but the inevitable flow of business means eventually they will. Everyone wants something for nothing, and appealing to this greed and under appreciation is killing this country. These websites and cheap services aren't good for anyone. I miss the America where you paid the value of something and got quality product from it.

/rant

Edit:

Another example, look at freelancer. People on that site used to ignore crap bids and only bid on work that matched market value. Now it's going south.

 

[KevinM]

Pluses and minuses to this as well. For a small company crowdsourcing, many freelancer won't see this as worthwhile for their time, and you can get a LOT of crappy artwork. A friend of mine's works for a place that did this sort of thing to the school they work for. Stating too that it wasn't for any payment as well though but "would be good for a resume/portfolio". The poor guy kept being called up by the boss of the company wanting endless revisions. The end result? Some stick figure logo.

While it won't be that bad, you need a pretty good reward to make crowdsourcing worthwhile for all involved. I agree with the others about the freelance artistry, because it does drive some to go for the lowest bid.

For a big name crowdsourcing... I'm a little less opposed, as with certain big names and their actions depending on how they deal with the situation especially with social networking. Especially if they share the entries and the names. This would allow greater coverage of the artists and their work.

 

[Homercidal]

Wouldn't this be a free market system at work?

 

[sheeshomatic]

Another problem with this is that it is not only 'crowdsourcing', it's outsourcing. I'm a Graphic Designer by degree. Fortunately, I'm also a network engineer, and that actually pays the bills. I was a freelancer for around 6 months at one point (that means unemployed, by the way), and I was looking for anything I could realistically get my hands on. From website tweaks, to photo edits, to ad copy, etc.

The problem was that I was competing with 'designers' in India, China, Thailand - willing to do work for a DOLLAR or FIFTY CENTS per edit/photo. That dollar certainly went much further for them than for me. It's only free market if the whole market is on a level playing field.

 

[digg1es]

No offense, but just because you got paid $65 an hour, doesn't mean that you were worth that. The market conditions determine what your time is worth.

Qualified designers are using the same CMS tools that are available to everyone. Why should they be paid so highly for using the same product?

I use autoCAD at work, yet I don't get paid $65 an hour for design work because the market doesn't support it.

Free enterprise. It's the exact same thing as budding photographers shooting weddings on the cheap. Pro photographers are so overpriced. I am not a pro by any means, yet I am shooting more weddings because people are seeing my prices vs a pro and the lack of difference in quality.

 

[HexKrak]

It's all about quality with these things. I've been on both sides managing outsourced projects, and bidding/freelancing. Sure, the guy in India can "get the job done", but the quality is usually really bad. So I've taken much higher, but reasonable bids on people with portfolios and references, and as long as I can communicate with them on details, I didn't care where they were from exactly (but often they were from the states). On the other side. I bid on projects, gave my portfolio and references, and have been selected sometimes, and other times the company decides to gamble with the lowest bidder. Sometimes they come back 5 months later and ask me if I'd still like the job, other times they have a decent website. There's a lot of countries where the workers (often, but not always) have a distinct lack of creative problem solving ability, I believe it has a lot to do with their schools curriculum.

 

[stamandster]

I know that Worth1000.com has design contests and you can usually get a fairly nice logo for pretty cheap.

 

[nukinfuts29]

Because some of us develop and design, not upload and install. You get what you pay for, and seeing as how I was underbidding (adding to the problem, admittedly) myself people were happy to pay.

And not all jobs can be properly done by CMS. Find me a guy who will design your site and program the entire backend for $125 and I will show you a hack.

 

[Kosch]

As a designer I am vehemently opposed to these types of crowd sourcing sites. You are asking 4 or 5 designers to work for free with the promise that one of them will be paid. Whether or not their design gets chosen they have put in the hours. Crowd sourcing is great for the client but it's really degrading and demeaning to the design industry as a whole.

I would think also though, for a designer just entering the market, this is a great way for them to get some work, build a portfolio, and maybe even earn a bit of cash.

 

[Mongrel]

The problem was that I was competing with 'designers' in India, China, Thailand - willing to do work for a DOLLAR or FIFTY CENTS per edit/photo. That dollar certainly went much further for them than for me. It's only free market if the whole market is on a level playing field.

Well, the aspiring designer in Thailand only has to walk into Pan Tip Plaza and 100 Baht ($3) later he has all the latest Adobe products on one CD. Another 100 Baht and he's got Maya. And yeah, the cost of living is also much cheaper.

 

[stubbornman]

They are forced in a way, because it is market depriciation. Allow me to give three examples I have witnessed first hand:

Bail Bonds: Most states have a minimum bondsman can charge to do a bail. For example take MI. Anything $1,000 and up is 10%, anything $999 and below is $100 legal minimum, no limit. So that means any bond company can do a $800 bond for $100. Nobody ever used to do this anywhere in the country, because they didn't have too. One company would say $150, the other would say yea ok $125 and boom they win.

Along comes my former boss, who at the time (~18-19 yrs ago) thought he was a genius. He opened up in 17 states at the same time, and did bail for the absolute lowest possible price when the market was in a great place, and nobody else was doing this. He ruined bail bonds and regrets it every day of his life. Companies now fight over crap bail for minimum prices, and a lot of times break the law. He built the biggest bail companies in the country, and watched the market take an unrecoverable hit. Places like Vegas still do great, but in most places those companies are hurting big time. All because someone was willing to do the same work for an insanely low amount of money.

Let's look at web design. Before Craigslist hit it's major boom, I made $65 an hour with an up front 10 hour minimum to do web design. I was one of the cheaper ones at the time, and I made a killing. Then CL exploded, CMS became widely available, and college/highschool students began doing entire websites for $200. Business's, musicians, they all ate that up. These days a qualified designer has to fight $50 bids for what used to be $1000 of work. It's insane.

Computer Repair, same thing.

So yea they are not forced too, but the inevitable flow of business means eventually they will. Everyone wants something for nothing, and appealing to this greed and under appreciation is killing this country. These websites and cheap services aren't good for anyone. I miss the America where you paid the value of something and got quality product from it.

/rant

Edit:

Another example, look at freelancer. People on that site used to ignore crap bids and only bid on work that matched market value. Now it's going south.

When you say 'inevitable flow of business' you mean free market. Your huge post can be summed up more simply. You made a 'killing' before craigslist allowed people more choices for the same service. Supply and demand in full effect. Same goes for your 'ex boss', he became the Walmart of the bail bond crowd, good for him.

Let me ask you this. Who should decide what businesses are good, or what price is too low? The government? You?

 

[stubbornman]

And not all jobs can be properly done by CMS. Find me a guy who will design your site and program the entire backend for $125 and I will show you a hack.

Ok this is absurd.... If you are acting like you program unique backends for every website you design, I'll show you a guy who talking out of his ass.

Edited to add that this is off topic and please ignore both his post and mine regarding this....

 

[tpitman]

No offense, but just because you got paid $65 an hour, doesn't mean that you were worth that. The market conditions determine what your time is worth.

Qualified designers are using the same CMS tools that are available to everyone. Why should they be paid so highly for using the same product?

I use autoCAD at work, yet I don't get paid $65 an hour for design work because the market doesn't support it.

Free enterprise. It's the exact same thing as budding photographers shooting weddings on the cheap. Pro photographers are so overpriced. I am not a pro by any means, yet I am shooting more weddings because people are seeing my prices vs a pro and the lack of difference in quality.

I've also spent the bulk of my career as a graphic designer. Aside from dealing with people who blanche at paying for design work, you'd think you were pulling their teeth when you'd recommend the use of a professional photographer. Trouble is, everyone has a camera, and they think that it's point-shoot-head to the drug store for development for the pro as it is for the amateur. If you've ever worked with a good professional photographer, they work their ass off and know what they're doing. Their product stands head and shoulders above the amateur.
I just made revisions to a brochure for a psychologist, and his office forwarded a new "portrait" to replace the old one. The original one was kind of crappy, but I got rid of the background and tarted it up a tad in Photoshop. The new replacement left me speechless, and other than a bit of contrast adjustment, I left it alone. Was it that good? No, it was so bad there was nothing to do to it to save it. If it weren't for the fact that I noticed a collar on the doctor's white polo shirt, I'd have sworn it was a photo of some homeless guy. He was rocking the five-day beard look, and it wasn't flattering. It was shot outdoors under a tree with mottled sunlight coming through. Fortunately, I kept my mouth shut because as it turns out, my contact was the dude's wife.

 

[stamandster]

9 out of 10 times the reason why people higher professionals is because they don't know how to do something themselves. They rely on the "expertise" of that person/firm and tend to trust them. What I've seen (I've done web dev/graphic design for over 14 years but I'm now in IT Network Security/BC-DR/Virtualization/Exchange) is that the end user won't do their research and just choose the first cheap company they come across.

The other thing is, like was mentioned before, once a market is saturated prices drop. That's why I got out of that line of work, for the most part. There are tons of people learning Ruby/PHP, PS editing, graphic design, backend CMS templating, etc. The internet is FULL of information on this topic and software is readily available. Do you think young people or non-US countries (kinda generalizing) care about EULA's and paying for software?

Just look at worth1000.com contests. You can get a rocking logo, etc. for a pittance because of low overhead. Try going to a design firm and it costs because of bloated salaries and operating costs. I used to charge about $65 an hour for web work (still $100 an hr for IT consulting), can't really justify that today. It also depends on where you are trying to find work. A large bustling metro will net you a higher per hour cost but you may end up getting the same amount after overhead costs.

But I have to say that pricing is the result of a bubble, just like the stock market and just like housing. Eventually stuff evens out when people realize that there's crap and there's greatness. And this is where marketing and pricing yourself comes in greatly. What's the added benefit to them getting you to design something for them? OR to shoot their wedding? I for well sure know that an amateur photographer will not be able to get the nuances of the wedding unless he's some sort of savant. There's so much technique that doesn't rely on a great camera (since now a cheap $300 camera can give you GREAT photos), so you've either got to be taught or teach yourself.

I find that those that never went to school for these types of things but are self taught price themselves lower than those that have gone to school for it. I don't know if it's a ego thing or not. But it's not always the case that those who went to school for these professions are always the best at what they do.